WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:12.960 Hello everybody, I am Cynthia, I'm P.M. at GitHub and today we're going to talk about universal 00:12.960 --> 00:18.760 software which hoodie, indicators and different government open source readiness. 00:18.760 --> 00:19.760 And here we have Pelin. 00:19.760 --> 00:26.200 Hi, I'm Penin Salzimina, I'm from D.P.J., the digital public goods alliance. 00:26.200 --> 00:28.200 I don't know if you know anything about it. 00:28.200 --> 00:32.200 I can just shortly say what's D.P.J. and D.P.G. means. 00:32.200 --> 00:35.200 First of all, how many D.P.J. are here? 00:35.200 --> 00:38.200 Okay, very few. 00:38.200 --> 00:41.200 So that's the reason we need to explain. 00:41.200 --> 00:49.200 Digital public goods alliance is a multi-stakeholder organization that is helping open source projects 00:49.200 --> 00:54.200 to be attained for the sustainable development goals achievement. 00:54.200 --> 00:58.200 And we have more than like 50 members at the moment. 00:58.200 --> 01:05.200 They are government organizations and UN organizations and development banks. 01:05.200 --> 01:13.200 And we also have more than 230 D.P.J., I think 236 D.P.J. at the moment. 01:13.200 --> 01:19.200 And D.P.J. are the open source products and solutions they can be standards, AI systems, 01:19.200 --> 01:23.200 they can be softwares, datasets, and so on. 01:23.200 --> 01:27.200 And they are just tested against D.P.J. standard. 01:27.200 --> 01:31.200 And if they are complying with the standard, they can reach the D.P.J. status for a year. 01:31.200 --> 01:34.200 And then they need to be renewed every year. 01:34.200 --> 01:36.200 So yeah, shortly that. 01:36.200 --> 01:42.200 And I'm working as the product and experiences lead at D.P.J., nice to meet you. 01:42.200 --> 01:44.200 Awesome. 01:44.200 --> 01:48.200 And also you have a stand in building H, right? 01:48.200 --> 01:51.200 We can go chat more with the D.P.J. 01:51.200 --> 01:53.200 So dive right into it. 01:53.200 --> 01:58.200 We want to talk a little bit about universal maturity indicators for digital public goods. 01:58.200 --> 02:02.200 So GitHub is part of the D.P.J., a number of different agencies. 02:02.200 --> 02:05.200 Governments is also part of the D.P.J. 02:05.200 --> 02:07.200 We have care code to go to the repo there. 02:07.200 --> 02:09.200 We want to take a look. 02:09.200 --> 02:14.200 And we got together as a community practice to really discuss and take a look at different 02:14.200 --> 02:18.200 different universal maturity indicators for D.P.J., 02:18.200 --> 02:22.200 and this was built off of UNICEF's Django project. 02:22.200 --> 02:25.200 Their framework, past framework as well. 02:25.200 --> 02:30.200 And really pulling all that in to take a look at what's the best way to really support 02:30.200 --> 02:36.200 maturity for different digital public goods, different projects that may have been built years ago 02:36.200 --> 02:38.200 or something brand new. 02:38.200 --> 02:42.200 So first, we also organized this by different pillars. 02:42.200 --> 02:45.200 And when you scan there, you can go take a look at this. 02:45.200 --> 02:48.200 We'd love your questions and feedback. 02:48.200 --> 02:51.200 So to start, we first took a look at governance. 02:51.200 --> 02:53.200 Being able to take a look at a digital public good. 02:53.200 --> 02:55.200 What is the governance structure? 02:55.200 --> 03:03.200 These are all these pillars are sorted by a low medium high type of ranking. 03:03.200 --> 03:07.200 So we want to take a look at what governance means for this project. 03:07.200 --> 03:11.200 We want to take a look at what data protection and security is like. 03:11.200 --> 03:15.200 So being able to take a look at, is there a secure deployment? 03:15.200 --> 03:18.200 What is the development set up like? 03:18.200 --> 03:23.200 Are there regulatory data compliances that this project complies to like GDPR? 03:23.200 --> 03:26.200 And, perhaps eventually, CRA as well. 03:26.200 --> 03:28.200 These cyber resilience act. 03:28.200 --> 03:31.200 And then also different security controls. 03:31.200 --> 03:37.200 Being able to take a look at high wouldn't mean that this project has very robust security 03:37.200 --> 03:39.200 controls from the very beginning. 03:39.200 --> 03:40.200 It's regularly audited. 03:40.200 --> 03:41.200 You have individuals. 03:41.200 --> 03:44.200 People can reach out to and it's very clear. 03:44.200 --> 03:46.200 Having open standards. 03:46.200 --> 03:47.200 Having openness. 03:47.200 --> 03:53.200 There's interoperability and different state data standards for that project. 03:53.200 --> 03:55.200 Having a roadmap. 03:55.200 --> 03:56.200 A different project. 03:56.200 --> 03:57.200 Strategies. 03:57.200 --> 04:01.200 A clear public roadmap that people can view, contribute to. 04:01.200 --> 04:05.200 And it's very clear what's going to happen next for that project. 04:05.200 --> 04:08.200 Having source code accessibility. 04:08.200 --> 04:10.200 So documentation. 04:10.200 --> 04:14.200 That's an unending sometimes a little bit thinkless type of role. 04:14.200 --> 04:16.200 But it's very important for the community. 04:16.200 --> 04:20.200 For contributors to take a look and be able to understand how to contribute. 04:20.200 --> 04:26.200 Being able to look at a very clear contributor file is the read me really clear. 04:26.200 --> 04:31.200 Something that the community can access and it's a living document. 04:31.200 --> 04:33.200 Total cost of ownership. 04:33.200 --> 04:34.200 Open source. 04:34.200 --> 04:35.200 There is a cost. 04:35.200 --> 04:40.200 So having a really clear budget that's indicated for the project. 04:40.200 --> 04:44.200 Being able to see what costs what and what's going to happen in the next few years. 04:44.200 --> 04:47.200 And then lastly, we have a flexible architecture. 04:47.200 --> 04:52.200 Being able to take a look at the composability of that project. 04:52.200 --> 04:53.200 So. 04:53.200 --> 04:54.200 Next. 04:54.200 --> 04:57.200 Here's a quick screenshot of what we mean with a low medium of high. 04:57.200 --> 04:59.200 So you see here on the governance. 04:59.200 --> 05:02.200 This is what that refers to. 05:02.200 --> 05:07.200 And if you want to go to that report, it's going to take a look and go to the discussion. 05:07.200 --> 05:09.200 Love your thoughts as well. 05:09.200 --> 05:12.200 So that was a lot of information a lot of words. 05:12.200 --> 05:14.200 But I'm sure you're more interested in a demo. 05:14.200 --> 05:16.200 So we have here. 05:16.200 --> 05:20.200 I think Helen is going to go through the demo that the digital public good alliance built. 05:20.200 --> 05:22.200 Thank you. 05:22.200 --> 05:24.200 So this is just the screenshot. 05:24.200 --> 05:27.200 But now I can just show you the QR code. 05:27.200 --> 05:30.200 We just invite everyone to test the tool. 05:30.200 --> 05:31.200 It's brand new. 05:31.200 --> 05:33.200 It's open for all scrutiny. 05:33.200 --> 05:40.200 Please make sure that you are checking it and actually testing against all this indicators 05:40.200 --> 05:42.200 that Cynthia just mentioned. 05:42.200 --> 05:46.200 I'm just going to tell shortly what you're going to see when you do that. 05:46.200 --> 05:47.200 This is the result page. 05:47.200 --> 05:49.200 This is the summary page. 05:49.200 --> 05:56.200 So when you actually answer all the questions that we have about all these indicators that we just mentioned. 05:57.200 --> 06:03.200 Based on your answers, you're going to be computed with some result. 06:03.200 --> 06:09.200 And then you will just see where you stand in terms of maturity. 06:09.200 --> 06:15.200 The confidence ratio is based on the evidence that you actually provide for each answer. 06:15.200 --> 06:20.200 Currently those answers, the evidence is not being reviewed. 06:20.200 --> 06:26.200 But soon we are planning to have automatically collected evidence as well. 06:26.200 --> 06:32.200 So that it can be more confident when we are calculating these results. 06:32.200 --> 06:39.200 And the summary is just including like where you stand for each indicator pillar. 06:39.200 --> 06:50.200 And then you can see the detailed calculation where you score better, where you score a little bit worse. 06:50.200 --> 06:59.200 And then you can get some simple indication like what could be the next step for improvement. 06:59.200 --> 07:06.200 And for the DPG product owners that are very few here, you can actually go to your portal entrance. 07:06.200 --> 07:10.200 And you will now see that you have your DPG status. 07:10.200 --> 07:14.200 But then you have an action item which is the maturity assessment. 07:14.200 --> 07:20.200 And if you click on that one, you will be able to start your assessment. 07:20.200 --> 07:24.200 The difference is that of course we are DPG organization. 07:24.200 --> 07:27.200 And we have the famous registry. 07:27.200 --> 07:30.200 If you are a DPG, you are in that registry listed. 07:30.200 --> 07:37.200 And along with a lot of information, we are also planning to use the maturity assessment result. 07:37.200 --> 07:40.200 But this is not decided fully yet. 07:40.200 --> 07:48.200 So we would also like to receive opinions and comments about how we should be displayed. 07:48.200 --> 07:54.200 And when it should be updated, how often would you like to have the assessment done. 07:54.200 --> 07:59.200 So that would be really nice if you could actually share your thoughts in our discussion board on GitHub. 07:59.200 --> 08:04.200 And yeah, this is the product owner screen. 08:04.200 --> 08:10.200 Like when you come there, your name is going to be already pre-filled and you will continue. 08:10.200 --> 08:15.200 So please, if you have any comments and any questions about it, 08:15.200 --> 08:18.200 make sure that you use our GitHub boards. 08:18.200 --> 08:24.200 We are open for all the feedback because it's the product in making. 08:24.200 --> 08:32.200 And just before I'm leaving it to Cynthia again, just wanted to share why we are doing these ridden assessments. 08:32.200 --> 08:42.200 Of course, this was coming out of a need when the implementers, the governments, the UN organizations and development banks, 08:42.200 --> 08:48.200 are looking for open source projects to implement support, invest. 08:48.200 --> 08:53.200 And then they are looking for certain factors. 08:53.200 --> 08:56.200 And that was the indicators that Cynthia just mentioned. 08:56.200 --> 08:59.200 And this is the reason we are doing the ridden assessment. 08:59.200 --> 09:11.200 But during our last annual members meeting in Brazil, we saw that both depGs and the members are actually needing to take it a little bit further. 09:11.200 --> 09:13.200 And they want to close the loop. 09:13.200 --> 09:18.200 Now we are talking about government readiness, aka implementer readiness as well. 09:18.200 --> 09:22.200 So this is something we started to look at recently. 09:22.200 --> 09:32.200 And I know that there are a lot of frameworks out there by UN, by many organizations, even universities and some, even some local governments. 09:32.200 --> 09:39.200 And I know that as open source product owners, you are probably facing many different cases. 09:39.200 --> 09:44.200 So we are really open for hearing your thoughts about that as well. 09:44.200 --> 09:50.200 At the end of the presentation, we're going to share QR code for a form. 09:50.200 --> 09:58.200 So if you are informed about any framework that you are aware of, and you think like it's useful, please inform us about that. 09:58.200 --> 10:07.200 And the reason we are involving the government readiness into the process now is that we are hearing that, 10:07.200 --> 10:16.200 if the implementer, if the integrator is also not having a certain level of maturity, the software can so do so far. 10:16.200 --> 10:35.200 So that's the reason that we want to close the loop to see like to take the current snapshot of the readiness and identify the strengths and gaps, and guide the governments also for the priority areas and readiness. 10:35.200 --> 10:40.200 So that's all for my side, I think. 10:40.200 --> 10:45.200 And now I just want to leave it to Cynthia to open for discussion. 10:45.200 --> 10:46.200 All right. 10:46.200 --> 10:51.200 So we answered this up as a roundtable because we really wanted to hear from the community. 10:51.200 --> 10:54.200 We wanted to hear from you here at Boston. 10:54.200 --> 10:55.200 So we have two questions. 10:55.200 --> 10:57.200 Hopefully we have time growth. 10:57.200 --> 11:03.200 And I think I have stickers to maybe pins for anybody who wants to contribute to this discussion. 11:03.200 --> 11:06.200 So first we'd love to know from everybody our first question. 11:06.200 --> 11:14.200 What governance or incentive mechanisms are needed to really ensure that such assessments like the ones we saw or different government assessments, 11:14.200 --> 11:26.200 UNHNC assessments like Django's framework with UNICEF will actually be used and continuously use year after year. 11:26.200 --> 11:28.200 Yes. 11:28.200 --> 11:38.200 I think that perhaps what's needed is clearly understand where the data is going like looping community in actually. 11:38.200 --> 11:42.200 Because I'm this is the first time I'm hearing about the FDA. 11:42.200 --> 11:44.200 But I really look it up later. 11:44.200 --> 11:55.200 And it seems like if we want this to get like on a government level and establish a connection between governments and open sort of projects that are invested by. 11:55.200 --> 12:03.200 Yeah, this is something that should be on everyone's tongue. 12:03.200 --> 12:06.200 Like that should be talking about it. 12:06.200 --> 12:07.200 Yeah. 12:07.200 --> 12:15.200 There should be local government initiatives spread awareness about the EPA, like general community. 12:15.200 --> 12:16.200 Yeah. 12:16.200 --> 12:18.200 That is why that's something that folks want. 12:18.200 --> 12:21.200 For example, that's how they can so it's a funding. 12:21.200 --> 12:22.200 Yeah. 12:22.200 --> 12:23.200 Yeah. 12:23.200 --> 12:28.200 That's a great point on discoverability of DPGs because there's a wide range of different projects from. 12:28.200 --> 12:38.200 Once are created by the government created by the UN agencies on disaster response all the way to civil society or universities that create projects on. 12:38.200 --> 12:41.200 Different libraries different banks. 12:41.200 --> 12:46.200 Human essential banks that exist and so being able to make that connection. 12:46.200 --> 12:53.200 Because we may already use DPGs a lot of times because it's already integrated in different infrastructure. 12:53.200 --> 12:58.200 But a lot of times it's not as well known to be thoughts on discoverability. 12:58.200 --> 12:59.200 Yeah. 12:59.200 --> 13:00.200 Yeah. 13:00.200 --> 13:01.200 We agree with you. 13:01.200 --> 13:06.200 And I think the maturity tool is going to help with this discovery with the as well. 13:06.200 --> 13:13.200 Because just right now, I said 236 DPGs and they are not doing the same thing. 13:13.200 --> 13:15.200 They are answering different needs. 13:15.200 --> 13:16.200 They are at different levels. 13:16.200 --> 13:20.200 They are targeting different locations and audiences. 13:20.200 --> 13:35.200 So with this maturity assessment tool, we are also hoping that this is going to help decision makers to make more informed decisions about what is the most suitable solution for them based on the assessment results. 13:35.200 --> 13:37.200 I hope it answers. 13:37.200 --> 13:39.200 Any more questions? 13:39.200 --> 13:40.200 Yes. 13:40.200 --> 13:44.200 If you consult, we are on that when you make a measure into a target. 13:44.200 --> 13:46.200 Then it stops being a good measure. 13:46.200 --> 13:48.200 It's called good odds law. 13:48.200 --> 13:49.200 I mean. 13:49.200 --> 13:50.200 So there are two issues. 13:50.200 --> 13:53.200 One would be that genuine maintainers won't want to go through the bureaucracy. 13:53.200 --> 13:55.200 That's involved in getting validated. 13:55.200 --> 13:59.200 And the second would be like bad actors and publicity came that they could have before. 13:59.200 --> 14:03.200 To be able to fulfill the criteria and getting included in the set. 14:03.200 --> 14:08.200 So I guess that would be like a kind of reservations that I might have. 14:09.200 --> 14:13.200 Could you summarize the questions of people online and do them? 14:13.200 --> 14:14.200 Okay. 14:14.200 --> 14:28.200 The question is like if the indicators and the measurement tool would be used to make things feeding certain targets, but not actually delivering a value. 14:28.200 --> 14:30.200 I think it is something like that. 14:30.200 --> 14:38.200 The second part, which is that the good maintainers won't have an extra check list of forms of phenomena. 14:38.200 --> 14:40.200 It's not a checklist of form. 14:40.200 --> 14:44.200 Actually, if you're a good maintainer, you're already doing these things. 14:44.200 --> 14:49.200 So it's just about just giving the answers that are helping others. 14:49.200 --> 14:58.200 Like if you want to be discoverable, if you want to be found by the right implementer, I think this is one of the easiest things that you do. 14:58.200 --> 15:01.200 If you're a good maintainer already. 15:01.200 --> 15:10.200 And what I'm seeing, it is not like making it a checklist and becoming like something that you kind of fulfill. 15:10.200 --> 15:15.200 But I'm seeing it as an opportunity to see how you can accelerate. 15:15.200 --> 15:25.200 And we in the DPJ are planning to use it like that by the way, because when I say about 200 and 3060PGs. 15:25.200 --> 15:28.200 Because there is a community management around of it. 15:28.200 --> 15:31.200 We have great community management initiative. 15:31.200 --> 15:40.200 And our review team is also quite tightly connected to all the DPGs that they reviewed. 15:40.200 --> 15:45.200 And they see, they don't need this tool, actually, to know who is mature, who is doing what. 15:45.200 --> 15:51.200 They already know that, but this is more about transfer of the knowledge, let's say. 15:51.200 --> 16:00.200 So this is going to help both the DPJ Alliance to actually help bring forward many DPGs to the next step. 16:00.200 --> 16:06.200 And also help the implementers to find the best suitable solutions. 16:06.200 --> 16:11.200 I don't see it as a checklist problem. 16:11.200 --> 16:19.200 Like I don't think answering these ones and achieving high result is going to be just the thing to achieve. 16:19.200 --> 16:28.200 Like I think this is actually going to deliver value at the end, because what we are asking is that is your governance model in place. 16:28.200 --> 16:30.200 And how do you go on your product? 16:30.200 --> 16:33.200 What kind of product roadmap practices you have? 16:33.200 --> 16:35.200 Like are you engaging the community? 16:35.200 --> 16:37.200 Do you hear from your implementers? 16:37.200 --> 16:38.200 Those type of things. 16:38.200 --> 16:41.200 And those you have to do anyway, I think. 16:41.200 --> 16:46.200 I kind of see it like a hygiene measure, actually. 16:46.200 --> 16:47.200 Yes? 16:47.200 --> 16:49.200 Because as I said, you put better. 16:49.200 --> 16:53.200 I might not have enough trust for mathematics. 16:53.200 --> 16:57.200 Because for me, it feels like it's at 1 to 4 metric. 16:57.200 --> 16:58.200 But it's not. 16:58.200 --> 17:03.200 And for me, I think that's enough time if it is my particular case. 17:03.200 --> 17:10.200 And if the mathematics are so general, I don't find them useful. 17:10.200 --> 17:13.200 Then I can say this maybe. 17:13.200 --> 17:17.200 By being a DPG, you are already not general. 17:17.200 --> 17:21.200 So like if you're a DPG, and if you're getting the metric assessment, 17:21.200 --> 17:27.200 you're kind of really narrowing it down if I understand what you meant correctly. 17:27.200 --> 17:31.200 I think also to act about what? 17:31.200 --> 17:32.200 Yes, sorry. 17:32.200 --> 17:39.200 Just to act about the pillars that we have for the assessment, it's also open. 17:39.200 --> 17:40.200 So we'd love your thoughts on that. 17:40.200 --> 17:45.200 Because that is something we want to have the community's thoughts on those pillars. 17:45.200 --> 17:47.200 The repo is on there. 17:47.200 --> 17:49.200 Let me know if you need that repo again. 17:49.200 --> 17:53.200 So that is something where we have the community to reach back out. 17:53.200 --> 17:59.200 And let us know, are they, if it is to stringent on some of the pillars or some of the indicators, 17:59.200 --> 18:04.200 being able to hear from the retailers, from the developers, from the product owners, 18:04.200 --> 18:10.200 would definitely help on being able to mold it to fit a wider range of different projects. 18:10.200 --> 18:13.200 Just wanted something more on that. 18:13.200 --> 18:16.200 Cynthia was actually pointing out something great. 18:16.200 --> 18:22.200 As you know, we prepared this together with UNICEF, FAO, and Digital Square. 18:22.200 --> 18:29.200 And there were a lot of discussions by the way to find the universal indicators. 18:29.200 --> 18:32.200 So you are kind of right about that that is kind of general. 18:32.200 --> 18:38.200 But we were also seeing that coming back to your point, like another checklist, 18:38.200 --> 18:42.200 another assessment, another form that you need to go through. 18:42.200 --> 18:49.200 Like we saw that Digital Square, which is, for example, supporting DPGs in health area, 18:49.200 --> 18:52.200 they have different type of requirements. 18:52.200 --> 18:55.200 And FAO has different type of requirements. 18:55.200 --> 18:58.200 They don't need to be even a DPG to get FAO support. 18:58.200 --> 19:02.200 UNICEF also, like having a quite a large spectrum. 19:02.200 --> 19:07.200 But when these organizations came together with GitHub and say like, 19:07.200 --> 19:12.200 we need universal indicators to understand if a software is mature, 19:12.200 --> 19:19.200 it was actually to find more general standard to bring everyone up to. 19:19.200 --> 19:26.200 So for a specific implementation cases, of course there are going to be even more like detailed checks, 19:26.200 --> 19:27.200 like for example in health. 19:27.200 --> 19:33.200 There are standards that no other software needs to fit unless they deliver some health product. 19:33.200 --> 19:42.200 So those those will stay, but very general maturity indicator is going to be here. 19:42.200 --> 19:49.200 So basically they all don't want to help me pick, but we will help me probably there. 19:49.200 --> 19:50.200 Yeah. 19:50.200 --> 19:52.200 You can say that. 19:52.200 --> 19:53.200 Yeah. 19:53.200 --> 19:54.200 Yeah. 19:54.200 --> 19:55.200 So sorry. 19:55.200 --> 19:56.200 Yes. 19:56.200 --> 20:01.200 They will help you validate what you are actually looking for. 20:01.200 --> 20:02.200 So. 20:02.200 --> 20:03.200 Yeah. 20:03.200 --> 20:04.200 Yeah. 20:04.200 --> 20:05.200 So. 20:05.200 --> 20:15.200 I was interested in what's your feedback that judging your engagement and participation. 20:15.200 --> 20:18.200 In terms of GitHub or for like this. 20:19.200 --> 20:24.200 The pillars or the like because you're saying like what it's sensitive. 20:24.200 --> 20:26.200 I'm assuming like. 20:26.200 --> 20:30.200 For organizations that might want to use these metrics. 20:30.200 --> 20:32.200 How would you where. 20:32.200 --> 20:35.200 How would you update these new metrics. 20:35.200 --> 20:36.200 Yeah. 20:36.200 --> 20:37.200 Yes. 20:37.200 --> 20:38.200 On the. 20:38.200 --> 20:41.200 And for the maturity tool itself. 20:41.200 --> 20:47.200 We will actually first launch it with the DPD for DPI collection. 20:47.200 --> 20:51.200 So that they can they can start using it to assess themselves. 20:51.200 --> 20:56.200 And then we have 51 members who will benefit from the results of this. 20:56.200 --> 20:59.200 To start with. 20:59.200 --> 21:02.200 Digital public infrastructure. 21:02.200 --> 21:08.200 So all the DPDs are used to build different digital public infrastructure, which may be different ways. 21:08.200 --> 21:10.200 Governments build. 21:11.200 --> 21:13.200 Telecommunication networks. 21:13.200 --> 21:19.200 An example of a DPI would be anything on how governments manage their. 21:19.200 --> 21:20.200 Yeah. 21:20.200 --> 21:21.200 Yeah. 21:21.200 --> 21:22.200 Did she ideas very common. 21:22.200 --> 21:23.200 Yeah. 21:23.200 --> 21:26.200 So all those products are used to build that for digital payments. 21:26.200 --> 21:27.200 Yeah. 21:27.200 --> 21:30.200 But we had that time that I think first. 21:30.200 --> 21:31.200 Sorry. 21:31.200 --> 21:32.200 Yeah. 21:32.200 --> 21:33.200 And then. 21:33.200 --> 21:34.200 And then. 21:34.200 --> 21:35.200 And then. 21:35.200 --> 21:37.200 And then. 21:37.200 --> 21:38.200 And then. 21:38.200 --> 21:39.200 And then. 21:39.200 --> 21:40.200 And then. 21:40.200 --> 21:41.200 And then. 21:41.200 --> 21:43.200 And then. 21:43.200 --> 21:44.200 And then. 21:44.200 --> 21:45.200 And then. 21:45.200 --> 21:46.200 And then. 21:46.200 --> 21:47.200 And then. 21:47.200 --> 21:48.200 And then. 21:48.200 --> 21:49.200 And then. 21:49.200 --> 21:50.200 And then. 21:50.200 --> 21:51.200 And then. 21:51.200 --> 21:52.200 And then. 21:52.200 --> 21:53.200 And then. 21:53.200 --> 21:54.200 And then. 21:54.200 --> 21:55.200 And then. 21:55.200 --> 21:56.200 And then. 21:56.200 --> 21:57.200 And then. 21:57.200 --> 21:58.200 And then. 21:58.200 --> 21:59.200 And then. 21:59.200 --> 22:00.200 And then. 22:01.200 --> 22:02.200 And then. 22:02.200 --> 22:03.200 And then. 22:03.200 --> 22:07.200 And then. 22:07.200 --> 22:08.200 And then. 22:08.200 --> 22:09.200 And then. 22:09.200 --> 22:12.200 So. 22:12.200 --> 22:16.200 And then. 22:16.200 --> 22:21.200 First, I can maybe summarize the question while you're formulating the answer. 22:21.200 --> 22:28.200 The question is that how are we making sure that the regional implementation requirements 22:28.200 --> 22:30.480 are met with these indicators. 22:30.480 --> 22:36.840 That is a great question because different governments and different countries, states have their 22:36.840 --> 22:37.840 own assessments as well. 22:37.840 --> 22:40.200 For example, Canada, Canada. 22:40.200 --> 22:45.600 They also have a digital assessment tool that the government built for themselves. 22:45.600 --> 22:50.360 That is then a little bit more geared towards the population and different rules and regulation. 22:50.360 --> 22:55.080 So that is something on top of what we currently have a lot of times as open source 22:55.080 --> 22:56.080 products. 22:56.080 --> 23:02.040 They may be used globally and so a local government or a different region would be able 23:02.040 --> 23:05.440 to also use their own assessment tools on top of that. 23:05.440 --> 23:10.080 I believe Canada has just released their last year recently and this has shared that so 23:10.080 --> 23:12.080 that one is also an exciting one. 23:12.080 --> 23:13.080 A good question. 23:13.080 --> 23:15.080 And I know we had one on the side too. 23:15.080 --> 23:22.080 So we showed that it was important to say much about the global development. 23:22.080 --> 23:30.080 While we were talking about it's most about the developers working so far and I think 23:30.080 --> 23:36.680 it's nothing but I mean we have to learn how to involve these governments or let's say 23:36.680 --> 23:40.680 they're all supposed to be growing in that open source. 23:40.680 --> 23:46.680 So they can actually use it or why they can use it. 23:46.680 --> 23:48.680 They'll plan for that. 23:48.680 --> 23:50.680 Thank you for the question. 23:50.680 --> 23:56.680 The question is what kind of plan do we have to involve all suppose or other governmental 23:56.680 --> 23:59.680 organizations to actually adopt and use this? 23:59.680 --> 24:03.680 Thank you for the question and I have two answers to that. 24:03.680 --> 24:11.680 One is that we do have our members which are from all around the world and from different 24:11.680 --> 24:20.680 verticals let's say we have governments we have UN organizations so that we are working with them 24:20.680 --> 24:25.680 to define how we can make sure that these measures are actually being used. 24:25.680 --> 24:32.680 And second we are coming here to hear from you like what kind of experience you have and 24:32.680 --> 24:43.680 where do you see the actual strength that we can leverage here to be part of. 24:43.680 --> 24:49.680 So if you have any suggestions that's also like you can be part of this like how we can implement it. 24:49.680 --> 24:50.680 Yeah. 24:50.680 --> 24:51.680 Yeah. 24:51.680 --> 24:52.680 All right. 24:52.680 --> 24:55.680 So I was working with the public sector. 24:55.680 --> 24:57.680 Just because there was a lot of resources. 24:57.680 --> 25:01.680 And so because then we have a company or somebody who is maintaining it. 25:01.680 --> 25:05.680 And then the public sector becomes and they have what they would like to have some kind of 25:05.680 --> 25:06.680 security. 25:06.680 --> 25:08.680 So we will be maintaining for five years. 25:08.680 --> 25:13.680 So I think that's the extra where it somehow helps. 25:13.680 --> 25:18.680 So the way to let the public sector know is that it has some kind of you would say 25:18.680 --> 25:24.680 not a year or a level of trust or some discreet being measured. 25:24.680 --> 25:29.680 So the company can involve that. 25:29.680 --> 25:38.680 And maybe I wish there was one more mic so that everybody would hear what he said. 25:38.680 --> 25:41.680 Well, I will try to summarize which was very nicely put. 25:41.680 --> 25:42.680 Yes. 25:42.680 --> 25:46.680 System integrators and implementers are a very key factor here. 25:46.680 --> 25:51.680 As you said, like because they are the ones maintaining it or implementing it and making sure that 25:51.680 --> 25:55.680 that software is functioning as it is supposed to for the next five years. 25:55.680 --> 26:02.680 So we do also agree that they should be part of this assessment process as well. 26:02.680 --> 26:04.680 And that is how we are working. 26:04.680 --> 26:09.680 Because as I mentioned in the beginning during our annual members meeting in Brazil, 26:09.680 --> 26:17.680 this was a specific session by the way, how a size could be included into certain processes. 26:17.680 --> 26:26.680 And how could we make sure that the maturity or the quality that we are requiring from the software 26:26.680 --> 26:30.680 is maintained throughout entire chain. 26:30.680 --> 26:33.680 So there is the consensus around that. 26:33.680 --> 26:38.680 And if you would like to add more, I would like to hear your thoughts after the session as well. 26:38.680 --> 26:39.680 Thank you. 27:00.680 --> 27:06.680 Yeah, very good suggestion. 27:06.680 --> 27:09.680 I'm just going to summarize again. 27:09.680 --> 27:15.680 You were telling that it's really nice that we measure the current status. 27:15.680 --> 27:22.680 But based on the result, how can we issue that? 27:22.680 --> 27:37.680 The improvements are made and which improvements are supposed to be made to reach the optimal level. 27:37.680 --> 27:40.680 And we do actually think about that by the way. 27:40.680 --> 27:45.680 Because when I said like accelerator, like that's what I was actually meaning. 27:45.680 --> 27:54.680 Because after taking the snapshot and maybe hopefully, like when more than the DPDs were DPI collection, 27:54.680 --> 27:56.680 maybe more DPDs are taking the assessment. 27:56.680 --> 28:07.680 If we can see where we are standing, then we can collectively actually develop road maps to bring the level up. 28:08.680 --> 28:18.680 However, that being said for individual cases, we were also discussing, like instead of, for example, publishing the results as they are, 28:18.680 --> 28:24.680 what matters is what are the plans of that specific DPD to achieve the next level. 28:24.680 --> 28:33.680 So that's going to be something that we're going to work on in the upcoming period, like how that is implemented and how it can be communicated. 28:33.680 --> 28:35.680 So thank you for that. 28:35.680 --> 28:37.680 And so we're going to move on to the next question. 28:37.680 --> 28:39.680 If we solve time, I think we're okay. 28:39.680 --> 28:41.680 Or 70 minutes. 28:41.680 --> 28:43.680 Oh, last time. 28:43.680 --> 28:44.680 Okay. 28:44.680 --> 28:52.680 So we have another question on what roles do you think should you different governments in the EU and the private sector, 28:52.680 --> 28:57.680 and civil society play in shaping or validating a universal maturity indicator? 28:57.680 --> 28:58.680 I know we had your hand up. 28:58.680 --> 28:59.680 Yes. 28:59.680 --> 29:00.680 Thank you. 29:00.680 --> 29:08.680 So as a vendor ourselves, I was on the company that does the SSB file and other company in the world, 29:08.680 --> 29:10.680 to refugee practices. 29:10.680 --> 29:14.680 And since it's also implemented to the government, 29:14.680 --> 29:20.680 it would likely also be certified there at the doors, 29:20.680 --> 29:26.680 and make sure that on a tender level, it would be a good idea to have tools that are already 29:26.680 --> 29:28.680 certified. 29:28.680 --> 29:34.680 And we, by example, are there tools to be certified? 29:34.680 --> 29:38.680 Should we just summarize? 29:38.680 --> 29:40.680 What was your name? 29:40.680 --> 29:41.680 Helen. 29:41.680 --> 29:47.680 Helen was just telling that maybe when the implementers are actually choosing their partners, 29:47.680 --> 29:51.680 they would select among the ones which were already certified, 29:51.680 --> 29:55.680 and which were already verified their maturity. 29:55.680 --> 30:01.680 So is it something similar to open source first policy type of thing? 30:01.680 --> 30:02.680 Yeah. 30:02.680 --> 30:03.680 Great. 30:03.680 --> 30:04.680 We like that. 30:04.680 --> 30:05.680 Yes. 30:11.680 --> 30:12.680 Yeah. 30:12.680 --> 30:14.680 Two is a great suggestion. 30:14.680 --> 30:18.680 Actually, I wish our standards manager Amrino was here, 30:18.680 --> 30:24.680 because she's working on making the DPG standards as one of these more generally. 30:24.680 --> 30:27.680 Available standard as well. 30:27.680 --> 30:32.680 But at the moment, we are maintaining our own standards, 30:32.680 --> 30:35.680 and DPGs are tested against that standard. 30:35.680 --> 30:37.680 Any other question? 30:54.680 --> 30:58.680 You can publish API, and we could open it to the implementers API, 30:58.680 --> 31:02.680 and you just think you're going to use it for the automatic management. 31:02.680 --> 31:05.680 You will be able to understand those in real time, 31:05.680 --> 31:08.680 but you will be able to prep up to the level. 31:08.680 --> 31:09.680 What should you do? 31:09.680 --> 31:10.680 Yeah. 31:10.680 --> 31:11.680 Thank you for that suggestion. 31:11.680 --> 31:15.680 It was suggested that why don't we collect all that data through an API? 31:15.680 --> 31:19.680 Actually, we have a data scientist, which is currently working on what kind of data 31:19.680 --> 31:23.680 is automatically collectible, and kind of valid dateable, let's say. 31:23.680 --> 31:28.680 So it's in the plan, but it's not the one that we are able to release at the moment, 31:28.680 --> 31:31.680 but we are working on that direction. 31:53.680 --> 31:55.680 You can open it to the entry. 31:55.680 --> 31:58.680 I don't think that you can do it. 31:58.680 --> 32:00.680 There are feedbacks as well. 32:00.680 --> 32:03.680 And that is one of the issues that you can also open. 32:03.680 --> 32:06.680 I want out there, for example, if I have a question, 32:06.680 --> 32:11.680 if you have the issues that you can talk to. 32:11.680 --> 32:14.680 So maybe I'm just trying to respond to them, 32:14.680 --> 32:16.680 but I'm not sure if you can answer them. 32:16.680 --> 32:18.680 And I'm not sure if you can answer them. 32:18.680 --> 32:24.680 I'm not sure if you can answer them, but I'm not sure if they can answer them. 32:24.680 --> 32:30.680 So if you can answer them, they can put those, you know, 32:30.680 --> 32:33.680 that is not the point. 32:33.680 --> 32:36.680 So if you can answer them, that's not the point. 32:36.680 --> 32:39.680 There's a lot of other things. 32:39.680 --> 32:40.680 That's not the point. 32:40.680 --> 32:42.680 And I will answer that. 32:42.680 --> 32:45.680 Comment and suggest you in the question, if it is possible. 32:45.680 --> 32:53.920 The suggestion was that the comment was that if there were any already collected indicators 32:53.920 --> 32:59.640 from the implementers regarding their general pain points, when they are selecting and 32:59.640 --> 33:07.520 implementing open source solution, I don't have that answer, but I'm going to ask that since 33:07.520 --> 33:13.660 you mentioned digital square, have you ever checked and benefited from their shelf-fed 33:13.660 --> 33:19.980 business assessments for health products? Do you have any experience with that that you 33:19.980 --> 33:24.420 could share with us if you did? If that answers that need? 33:25.420 --> 33:32.420 So for us, then we did a look at this all and we did not necessarily attempt on 33:32.420 --> 33:38.420 the problem, but it was important to share that with the government partners. 33:38.420 --> 33:46.420 We were working with national governments to share that as a resource, and in order to 33:47.420 --> 33:52.420 the long negotiations that went on around, how are you making their own decisions about 33:52.420 --> 33:59.420 you? So if I understand correct, you used one existing tool to actually help 33:59.420 --> 34:05.420 a decision-maker to make a decision about what you could provide potentially. 34:16.420 --> 34:29.420 Yeah, and one thing that I can tell about that is that as Cynthia mentioned, 34:29.420 --> 34:34.420 there's the Canadian example, like there are a lot of examples about how implementers 34:34.420 --> 34:40.420 and governments are assessing their readiness. Some of them are from the point of view of 34:40.420 --> 34:45.420 the product owners themselves, like they are product owner governments, and they do assess 34:45.420 --> 34:52.420 how they adopt those products within their organizations, and that's the assessment type. 34:52.420 --> 34:57.420 Let's say it's different. The one that you're talking about is a sector specific, 34:57.420 --> 35:05.420 one, for example, and there might be a lot of regional differences as we were discussing. 35:05.420 --> 35:11.420 So to find the universal one there, that's what we are working on right now with our members, 35:11.420 --> 35:17.420 because it took a lot of time to land on the universal indicators for software, 35:17.420 --> 35:23.420 which is kind of pretty much defined by the sector best practices anyway. 35:23.420 --> 35:29.420 But when it comes to implementers side, we don't have that base level, which is already good. 35:29.420 --> 35:33.420 So that is what we're going to work on this year. We have a target of achieving 35:33.420 --> 35:41.420 some sort of indicator drafts until November, until our next annual members meeting. 35:41.420 --> 35:45.420 I hope we will learn from your experiences as well. 35:45.420 --> 35:48.420 So please do participate in that process. Thanks. 35:48.420 --> 35:51.420 And I'd love to know a little bit more about the DBG product. 35:51.420 --> 35:54.420 As well. If you're feeling comfortable sharing what the DBG? 35:54.420 --> 36:06.420 So I think it's with data kind. It's a non-profit organization that works on data side data solutions for software. 36:06.420 --> 36:10.420 The product is called the data observation system. 36:10.420 --> 36:19.420 It's essentially a way to local, local way to check data quality and art areas. 36:19.420 --> 36:22.420 You know, you may, your main dimension is a data quality. 36:22.420 --> 36:27.420 How can you just check it? And then also can you write some custom testing to check it? 36:27.420 --> 36:32.420 Whether you are the work flows that you use in our case of testing. 36:32.420 --> 36:34.420 Okay, certain work flows. 36:34.420 --> 36:37.420 I mean, the comfort goes and actually test those work flows also. 36:37.420 --> 36:39.420 It actually fairly sector-agnostic tool. 36:39.420 --> 36:43.420 It just happens to be right now being used in the process. 36:43.420 --> 36:47.420 And it's basically, in my colleagues, but it basically is the wrapper for it. 36:48.420 --> 36:54.420 Okay, okay. 36:54.420 --> 36:56.420 Any more? 36:56.420 --> 36:57.420 Yeah. 36:57.420 --> 37:01.420 Because I see that my purpose is using the option that material here, 37:01.420 --> 37:04.420 I was wondering, you get up where you were working for. 37:04.420 --> 37:07.420 It's also a convenient part to do to cross the structure. 37:07.420 --> 37:09.420 There are also many governments that are using. 37:09.420 --> 37:13.420 And I was wondering if you can share all the feedback on the track. 37:13.420 --> 37:17.420 That you come into the vision of public infrastructure. 37:17.420 --> 37:21.420 And whether you're so first of all, do you want to talk about that? 37:21.420 --> 37:24.420 Or do you not get to be really critical with it? 37:24.420 --> 37:25.420 Thank you. 37:25.420 --> 37:31.420 So the question was whether more on GitHub or different software companies, 37:31.420 --> 37:36.420 being a digital infrastructure or being able to be a digital public good, perhaps? 37:36.420 --> 37:41.420 I think for me, digital public infrastructure are built on digital public good. 37:41.420 --> 37:48.420 It's a little bit more for a country or country state to be able to build for the community, 37:48.420 --> 37:50.420 for their constituents or beneficiaries. 37:50.420 --> 37:55.420 So I think it's a little bit more on an infrastructure that is, for example, 37:55.420 --> 37:58.420 internet or telecommunication or healthcare. 37:58.420 --> 38:03.420 So I feel the product itself as a good, like GitHub, for instance, 38:03.420 --> 38:10.420 may not qualify for an infrastructure in the same way as a national ID system. 38:10.420 --> 38:14.420 That is managed and delivered by a government. 38:14.420 --> 38:20.420 But that could be interesting in terms of how that could work in terms of, as an infrastructure. 38:20.420 --> 38:23.420 I don't know if a kid would fit into that, unfortunately. 38:23.420 --> 38:26.420 But that's interesting to think about. 38:26.420 --> 38:27.420 I think you. 38:27.420 --> 38:30.420 And I think just to read the question, I would love to know from here, 38:30.420 --> 38:35.420 what role do you think governments or the private sector or society could play 38:35.420 --> 38:39.420 in shaping or validating a universal or universal maturity indicator? 38:39.420 --> 38:42.420 I feel like that question does really, very well into that. 38:42.420 --> 38:46.420 In terms of GitHub being able to really provide a platform for that. 38:46.420 --> 38:52.420 And having it open and encouraging more open source and more contribution 38:52.420 --> 38:55.420 to supporting the community, supporting developers on that. 38:55.420 --> 38:56.420 The question. 38:56.420 --> 38:58.420 And then I saw, yes. 38:59.420 --> 39:00.420 Yeah. 39:00.420 --> 39:02.420 Question that. 39:02.420 --> 39:05.420 Maybe I missed a very fundamental contribution here. 39:05.420 --> 39:07.420 But I'll just like to know. 39:07.420 --> 39:10.420 Are you also concerned with assigning things? 39:10.420 --> 39:13.420 And what's the evaluation for the product? 39:13.420 --> 39:16.420 Or are you just concerned with establishing the metric? 39:16.420 --> 39:20.420 And then everybody can do their own thing with it? 39:20.420 --> 39:23.420 I think that would be interesting in terms of. 39:23.420 --> 39:25.420 It's also much assigning. 39:25.420 --> 39:27.420 I think it's more of this is what's available. 39:28.420 --> 39:29.420 I think we mentioned here. 39:29.420 --> 39:34.420 This is something that different implementers may be curious on being able to write guidance 39:34.420 --> 39:36.420 on a maturity of a product. 39:36.420 --> 39:39.420 So it's not so much regulated. 39:39.420 --> 39:43.420 It's more of this being able to provide additional resources. 39:43.420 --> 39:47.420 Currently, there isn't any sets rule for it. 39:47.420 --> 39:51.420 Like if, for example, like what I understood from your question is like 39:51.420 --> 39:59.420 if the DPGA members, 51 members, if they're going to be requiring the DPGs that they 39:59.420 --> 40:02.420 may work with to take this assessment. 40:02.420 --> 40:04.420 Is it going to be an assignment? 40:04.420 --> 40:10.420 Is it going to be a requirement by implementers to have this test? 40:10.420 --> 40:17.420 It looks like they wanted, but currently there isn't a sets requirement for that at the moment. 40:18.420 --> 40:24.420 What we as DPGA and the DPG community management want to achieve is that running this assessment 40:24.420 --> 40:30.420 with as many DPGs as possible, so that we do have a snapshot of our ecosystem. 40:30.420 --> 40:36.420 Like where we are standing and understanding and defining the current problems. 40:36.420 --> 40:40.420 Like where is the pain point about reaching a certain maturity? 40:40.420 --> 40:45.420 Like in which indicator we are struggling most worldwide? 40:45.420 --> 40:52.420 Are there any regional, how can I say, difficulties that we may find out? 40:52.420 --> 40:59.420 So the assignment is not going to be an assignment let's say, but we will encourage taking it as much as possible 40:59.420 --> 41:01.420 because it's going to be a very valuable data. 41:01.420 --> 41:08.420 And on the way it's going to be updated as I was mentioning like the data is going to be automatically collected hopefully. 41:08.420 --> 41:13.420 So if they opt in for that, that can be done for their DPG. 41:13.420 --> 41:20.420 There are different ways of going forward, but currently we don't have an assignment for that. 41:20.420 --> 41:25.420 Only requirement we're going to have is going to be the DPGs for the IPI collection. 41:25.420 --> 41:27.420 It has currently 14 DPGs in it. 41:27.420 --> 41:32.420 We will first knock their door to take the assignment actually. 41:32.420 --> 41:35.420 So that might be the only one. 41:35.420 --> 41:39.420 I think we have very limited time so despite the last question. 41:39.420 --> 41:41.420 Since you will or the asked, I will. 42:10.420 --> 42:22.420 Yeah, there's still a lot to do here because as I said like a DPGA is a members organization. 42:22.420 --> 42:29.420 So when someone here I think it left already, but like when he said like he didn't hear about DPGA before. 42:29.420 --> 42:38.420 Yeah, like it's it's the organization which 50 members with quite a good put print actually, but it's still an organization and this was a close topic. 42:38.420 --> 42:44.420 Which we now for the first time opening to the rest of the audience let's say. 42:44.420 --> 42:53.420 So it is a it's a pro process that is still developing and that's why we are asking everyone to participate. 42:53.420 --> 42:57.420 I just want to share these QR codes. 42:57.420 --> 43:05.420 This one is to share the best practices that you know about government and implementation readiness let's say. 43:05.420 --> 43:18.420 And this is the for the DPGs actually if you would like to test the action did everyone take it sorry like especially not one. 43:18.420 --> 43:26.420 And I will give the QR code for the the one that is open for everyone. 43:26.420 --> 43:29.420 And it is this one. 43:29.420 --> 43:34.420 So thank you very much for all your engagements and the questions. 43:35.420 --> 43:37.420 Thank you very much.