WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:11.440 All right, good morning and welcome back. 00:11.440 --> 00:12.920 This is the open hardware dev room. 00:12.920 --> 00:18.440 Our next talk is from Morgan, whose bio reads Morgan. 00:18.440 --> 00:22.880 So I know nothing about Morgan, except that Morgan is the author of the key connect add-on. 00:22.880 --> 00:27.720 So we are keeping with the theme of e-cad slash m-cad integration without further ado, 00:27.720 --> 00:28.720 take it away, Morgan. 00:29.680 --> 00:30.680 Good morning, everybody. 00:30.680 --> 00:33.680 As I said, my name is Morgan. 00:33.680 --> 00:39.760 Long time hacker at large, all sorts of background is all over the place. 00:39.760 --> 00:41.400 I'm a long time free-cad user. 00:41.400 --> 00:45.040 I've been using free-cad for at least a decade now. 00:45.040 --> 00:50.480 Professionally, I used to be the lead exhibitor for a space and science museum. 00:50.480 --> 00:55.760 We used free-cad for most of our most of the design. 00:55.760 --> 01:03.360 Designed and I used the cam workbench to program CNC uprun the small CNC shop. 01:03.360 --> 01:08.800 Also using free-cad for design and cam. 01:08.800 --> 01:11.240 Alabama Industries, this is mine and my partner's company. 01:11.240 --> 01:13.840 We're an independent exhibit fabrication company. 01:13.840 --> 01:18.280 Again, we use free-cad for all of our design and CNC. 01:18.280 --> 01:29.080 We also use the Cicad Cicad for circuit boards, custom stuff in a lot of our designs. 01:29.080 --> 01:35.160 One of our kind of off-the-cuff designs that we've done is kind of a promotional call the 01:35.160 --> 01:37.720 bar back version two. 01:37.720 --> 01:40.880 Probably the most complex design of done in free-cad. 01:40.880 --> 01:48.160 Huge assemblies, circuit board, integrated into it, into the design, a lot of moving parts. 01:48.160 --> 01:57.760 Fabricated, in fact, again, this is completely free-cad pushing the cam workbench to its 01:57.760 --> 02:00.480 limits with some of this stuff. 02:00.480 --> 02:06.280 This is from Robo Exodica last year, which was fun event, highly recommended. 02:06.280 --> 02:14.520 I'm also a longtime Cicad user, not EE by any means, I'm just a hobbyist. 02:14.520 --> 02:21.360 Maker, if you will, got really into the designing badge scene, the badge life scene, in which 02:21.360 --> 02:24.360 I designed the Cuccophony. 02:24.360 --> 02:33.320 This is a design that kind of drove me mad, I didn't touch Cicad for almost a year after 02:33.320 --> 02:34.320 this. 02:34.320 --> 02:40.320 This project was so difficult, and trying to get it across the finish line for Deathcon, 02:40.320 --> 02:42.520 I don't know, 2018. 02:42.520 --> 02:49.600 It was incredibly difficult, because this design had become so complicated, the 3D structure 02:49.600 --> 02:58.000 was built in free-cad, and then trying to do the circuit layout while pushing DXF files 02:58.000 --> 02:59.000 back and forth. 02:59.000 --> 03:05.840 I got to this point, in the end, I'm trying to do panelization, and I'm so terrified to 03:05.840 --> 03:12.720 touch anything, because one wrong week somewhere and just things were blowing up all over 03:12.720 --> 03:13.720 the place. 03:13.720 --> 03:20.080 It was a really, really, really painful process, and this project never got completed because 03:20.080 --> 03:21.080 of that. 03:21.080 --> 03:25.440 There was a couple more things, one more revision would have gotten a lot done, but it just 03:25.440 --> 03:31.760 wasn't happening with the state of the process. 03:31.760 --> 03:37.040 So that prompted me to start trying to build tooling to assist with this, so I had some 03:37.040 --> 03:44.240 one off Python scripts that would take a footprint that was a bridge connector, and it 03:44.240 --> 03:48.280 would draw lines in between them, it would put the mouse bites in there, it worked, do a 03:48.280 --> 03:55.160 degree, but it was all very, very one-off and very custom, so it didn't have broad enough 03:55.160 --> 04:02.480 support for some of the other projects that I had coming up in the pipeline. 04:02.480 --> 04:07.760 In fact, I regret not getting pictures on here, because I was starting to dabble in moving 04:07.760 --> 04:08.760 part PCBs. 04:08.760 --> 04:15.760 I've made mechanical sliders, I've made rotary purely out of PCBs, no 3D printed parts, 04:15.760 --> 04:20.200 no nothing, but entirely, mechanical parts entirely in PCB. 04:20.240 --> 04:25.720 So some of my next designs were going to be that complex, and my tooling just wasn't 04:25.720 --> 04:27.080 having it. 04:27.080 --> 04:33.680 So I'd started on what would have been connected to my 3rd attempt at making some 04:33.680 --> 04:36.920 making a tool that fits my needs. 04:36.920 --> 04:41.160 The first time around, I was trying to use KaiKat step up, if anyone has actually used 04:41.160 --> 04:49.720 that in Greekad, it has its own KaiKat file parser, so it's doing all of its own parsing, 04:49.720 --> 04:53.640 drawing the geometry, and bringing it in to free CAD. 04:53.640 --> 04:58.560 It can push back, but it's the same thing, it writes its own files, so it's highly dependent 04:58.560 --> 05:06.080 on keeping up to date with KaiKat, and sometimes falls behind in that, but then additionally 05:06.080 --> 05:15.000 it has a specific workflow designed, and it doesn't lend itself well to be embedded 05:15.000 --> 05:16.000 into something else. 05:16.000 --> 05:21.840 So I'm trying to create a bigger workbench around it, so I need something that was more 05:21.840 --> 05:23.120 embeddable, if you will. 05:23.120 --> 05:30.760 Something I can use as a module, not just use as the tool it was intended for. 05:30.760 --> 05:38.680 Let's see, so I introduced this project, KaiKat last March, I'd been about 3 months into 05:38.680 --> 05:44.880 it at that 4 months into it at that point with the release of KaiKat version 9, and having 05:44.880 --> 05:51.040 a stable API, it gave me a good foundation to start moving forward with. 05:51.040 --> 05:55.480 So yet it's the recap of it, it was just general introduction, just kind of the high level 05:55.480 --> 06:00.720 of the background of why I started down this pathway, a roadmap, I was trying to release 06:00.720 --> 06:09.320 this, the version 1 last August, but life and everything else happened, so didn't have 06:09.320 --> 06:14.480 as much time to work on the second half of last year that I had wanted, but progress did 06:14.480 --> 06:20.280 pick up around that time and put a lot more in the second half of last year, got a lot 06:20.280 --> 06:26.800 of the major bugs and a lot of the usability features, figured out and really started 06:26.800 --> 06:33.240 pushing the core of the code to try to get something really stable moving forward. 06:33.240 --> 06:38.560 Around that same time Auguster September, I applied for a free CAD project association 06:38.560 --> 06:39.560 grant. 06:40.480 --> 06:45.920 I did get a briefed of it for it in December, but my general proposal was to commit 06:45.920 --> 06:52.760 100 hours this year to working on this project, started basically starting with getting 06:52.760 --> 06:59.080 the version 1.0 released, that's kind of around the corner, yeah except committed 100 hours, 06:59.080 --> 07:05.000 I've already started on the contract just a few weeks ago, I really started getting on 07:05.000 --> 07:11.400 it and Ernst, committing 10 to 10 hours a week, sort of part of it, broken it up into 07:11.400 --> 07:16.880 three distinct working phases, and a big part of it is I want to try to live stream as 07:16.880 --> 07:18.760 much of it as possible. 07:18.760 --> 07:24.080 I've already done two of them so far and after I'm back from vacation, I'm going to, 07:24.080 --> 07:28.600 you know, two live streams and I had to take a break, so you know, need a vacation. 07:28.600 --> 07:33.560 So I'll be getting back to that in three weeks or something and then it went actually 07:33.600 --> 07:42.360 interested, Thursday, it's 9 a.m. Pacific time, UTC minus 8. And so with a lot of the 07:42.360 --> 07:53.480 base stuff kind of looking good, version 1, I hope to have my mid-market the latest, depends 07:53.480 --> 08:00.800 just kind of how things go jumping back into it, after I'm, after I'm back home, I can 08:00.800 --> 08:08.520 say there's three different phases of how I decided to break up the development. A lot of 08:08.520 --> 08:16.120 it was said is really getting the core infrastructure solidified, so then I've got a good 08:16.120 --> 08:21.840 base to move forward on, kind of the whole project, despite there's a lot of different 08:21.840 --> 08:26.120 parts of it, they all look very similar under the hood, it's take Kai-Kai-Ka-Giammetry 08:26.160 --> 08:33.240 and produce free CAD, geometry out, vice versa. So getting a really good base, base 08:33.240 --> 08:38.080 class system has been really important, I would want to get that looking good from the 08:38.080 --> 08:46.040 get-go, so so far I'm pretty happy with it. Documentation, just kind of getting started 08:46.040 --> 08:52.640 that's getting some improvement now and it's going to be a big part of the 1.0 release. 08:52.640 --> 08:56.600 I hadn't really been doing that the start because the direction was kind of all over 08:56.600 --> 09:02.120 the place. With that user feedback isn't quite there, so that'll be something that's 09:02.120 --> 09:11.760 going to be improved on. Translation support, free CAD is using the QT under the hood, which 09:11.760 --> 09:17.080 has good translation support built in. There's stubs throughout the code now, I want 09:17.080 --> 09:26.040 to get everything with translation support from the get-go. Project files need some cleanup, 09:26.040 --> 09:31.160 despite the fact that I've been professional Python developer for a decade, not actually 09:31.160 --> 09:35.240 that good at releasing modules, I've never actually pushed anything to PIP, so there's a 09:35.240 --> 09:41.280 little bit of work to do around that, if anyone is very familiar with that, holler at me. 09:41.280 --> 09:45.760 And once those kind of things are underway and especially once the project files are cleaned 09:45.760 --> 09:52.760 up, we'll push 1.0 to the add-ons. Again, this is the goal for this is a month from now. 09:52.760 --> 09:59.480 The pretty sure I can pull that. Then start pushing into some of the bigger parts of this, 09:59.480 --> 10:06.920 the phase 2, improving the hierarchy of the parts to boards relationship, but there's 10:06.920 --> 10:11.360 more to it than that. It's just effectively getting everything relatively positioned correctly. 10:11.840 --> 10:16.280 There's different ways of thinking about this. Like, you know, guy CAD, we all design in the 10:16.280 --> 10:21.080 center of the document, despite the fact that 0-0 is over there, free CAD is 0-0 is in the 10:21.080 --> 10:28.520 center everywhere, so there's options of how an individual user wants to handle that. 10:28.520 --> 10:35.840 And particularly once you start looking at, I've got multi-document support here, but 10:35.920 --> 10:43.920 multi-bored support, obviously, I'm doing big stupid things like this. So I want to be 10:43.920 --> 10:50.320 able to work on all of these boards in one document or in multiple documents and be able 10:50.320 --> 10:58.960 to easily assemble them together in the manufacturerable panel at the same time, I may 10:58.960 --> 11:04.960 be able to actually do a 3D assembly because that's my goal. There's a lot of useful 11:04.960 --> 11:14.120 stuff for other people. My goal is to be able to do weird 3D PCBs. As of now, I only support 11:14.120 --> 11:19.400 polygons, which I suspect most people in Kikater are not using yet. There's somewhat 11:19.400 --> 11:25.480 new. I think a lot of people are just going to be using discrete line segments, not 100% sure 11:25.480 --> 11:30.880 there, but I look back and most of my projects have discrete line segments until just a couple 11:30.960 --> 11:36.680 years ago. Internal cutouts and stuff aren't supported yet, so you know, bounding box detection 11:36.680 --> 11:42.320 needs to get done, line segment ordering needs to get done. Those two are pretty closely 11:42.320 --> 11:50.560 related, so I hope they'll come through similar times. And the note of like island support 11:50.560 --> 11:56.600 and bounding box detection, hopefully be starting on prior to the phase two. Some of 11:56.600 --> 12:09.880 this stuff might actually even make it into the 1.0 release. Then the phase 3, improving 12:09.880 --> 12:17.480 the part-to-vort association, that's this sort of repetition, the same thing. There's 12:17.480 --> 12:24.480 a lot of new wants going on. Sorry, so this is for multi-board, so one of the hang-ups 12:24.560 --> 12:32.240 now is that parts are just sort of parts. So if you had multiple boards in your Kikater 12:32.240 --> 12:38.880 project, all the ports just sort of parts get imported together. So better support on these 12:38.880 --> 12:46.560 parts belong to this board, so that'll make a particularly one multi-document support comes 12:46.640 --> 12:55.600 through. That'll, that'll be critical to, you know, keep everything straight. All ready, 12:55.600 --> 13:00.240 there's a little bit of roadbapping going on, because I just want to keep ahead of, I know 13:00.240 --> 13:09.840 this code isn't the best right now. The free CAD, free CAD scriptable object state PI is kind of 13:09.840 --> 13:15.040 interesting. It's complex and it's under documented, so I'm learning a lot the more I dive into 13:16.000 --> 13:20.960 there's also some short coming in the Senate that part of this is, you know, I want to submit 13:20.960 --> 13:27.520 bugs and hopefully even patches to free CAD to overcome some of the shortcomings that I'm having 13:27.520 --> 13:33.280 to work around. Test coverage, there's already a little bit of testing, but I really want to make 13:33.280 --> 13:40.960 sure by the end of the grant process that I have good test coverage going forward. I'm hoping 13:40.960 --> 13:46.560 that, you know, other people will be contributing by that time, so having a good testing, 13:46.560 --> 13:52.400 even just work I did two weeks ago. I realized last night I introduced, introduced the bug, 13:52.400 --> 14:02.240 so trying to get, yeah, more consistency there, exploring CAD side add-ons, that's kind of 14:02.240 --> 14:08.320 something I want to start experimenting with, because there are some shortcomings in the 14:08.320 --> 14:15.040 KaiKat API, in particular one of the issues that I've seen and I think it's going to continue 14:15.040 --> 14:22.640 to be an issue is there's no way of passing events. So one of the things that I see that I would 14:22.640 --> 14:30.320 like is like if you click on a part in either side, I would like highlighting free CAD to KaiKat, 14:30.320 --> 14:36.480 this is possible, but it's not possible the other direction, and the bug I submitted on that seems 14:36.480 --> 14:44.560 like it's not going to be available in the near future in the API directly. So I want to explore 14:44.560 --> 14:54.240 doing a KaiKat side add-on that is going more into the UI layer, so seeing if we can actually 14:54.240 --> 15:02.320 start capturing some of those events. Yeah, so that'll take me through the grant and I think 15:02.320 --> 15:10.560 I'm committed to the grant to about April or May, so I'm hoping that most of the stuff will be 15:11.760 --> 15:18.320 early started in a good shape by the time that comes around. What else have we got here? 15:20.080 --> 15:25.440 Yeah, coming up next, plan for the version 3 rewrite, because it will probably be 15:26.240 --> 15:34.080 probably a necessary. And then it's really going to be starting to add features onto the base 15:35.040 --> 15:41.600 that's already been created when I gave the talk at KaiKat, KaiKat, got a lot of feedback on features 15:41.600 --> 15:46.800 that people would want somewhere already on my radar, others weren't. Test fixtures generators, 15:46.800 --> 15:54.800 so just one click that of nails, fixtures, like that's almost a given given. You can set up a second 15:54.800 --> 15:59.760 object and as your board changes, it will just always be up to date. So that's one of the goals. 15:59.760 --> 16:06.240 And it brings one of the things I really see being beneficial in multi-document support is you've got 16:06.240 --> 16:12.240 your main project, you've got the KaiKat interface that's just outputting your band nails to a 16:12.240 --> 16:21.760 completely separate file in the background. And with the upcoming issue, the eventual release of 16:21.760 --> 16:28.880 KaiKat version 10, there's going to be one huge benefit in there that the KaiKat CLI is going to 16:28.880 --> 16:35.920 incorporate API support. And this is going to be the basis for most of the multi-document, 16:35.920 --> 16:40.480 where then you can just for every document that you have, it's just going to launch 16:41.920 --> 16:47.200 KaiKat CLI in the background. So you can have as many documents as you want at that point. 16:47.200 --> 16:54.640 And you won't, you won't even need the interface. If you're only doing, if you're only doing 16:54.640 --> 17:00.320 the MCAD side, you can tweak your heart's desire, you don't even need KaiKat running. 17:02.560 --> 17:08.080 Automatic closure creations, this could be done in a handful of different ways on the free 17:08.080 --> 17:15.520 CAD side, down to like the simplest of just creating a 3D bounding box. You know, you tell 17:15.520 --> 17:20.640 it what offset that you want and it's just going to give you a solid. That's a bounding box 17:20.640 --> 17:25.840 of your model. You can Boolean negative out of whatever you want. Simple enclosures ready to go. 17:25.840 --> 17:30.880 Panelization, that's going to be just a huge part of it. I'm going to do my best to 17:34.400 --> 17:40.960 utilize KaiKat. If anyone's used that, KaiKat is a really, really good panelization tool. So I want 17:40.960 --> 17:47.440 to utilize that. And starting point, just using it as it's intended is really straightforward. 17:48.880 --> 17:53.680 The real hackery that I want to get to is this again. Being able to use 17:53.680 --> 18:00.960 use KaiKat to take different panels and panelize them together. I've dug into their code a little 18:00.960 --> 18:07.360 bit and it looks, it's in the realm of doable. So just how much hacking it will take. 18:08.320 --> 18:17.920 Support for other e-cats. The way I'm designing things now, I'm trying to keep the import 18:17.920 --> 18:23.200 disynchronization, the sink in sink out. I'm trying to keep very modular because I wanted to keep 18:23.200 --> 18:29.520 in mind in the future of supporting other things. And then the prior talk is really, really interesting 18:29.520 --> 18:38.800 IDX support, that is something that could fit within this quite well. A whole bunch of other stuff. 18:38.800 --> 18:44.560 There's the code is all hosted on codeburg. I should put them on slide. Code is all on code 18:44.560 --> 18:52.720 burg. So go look at the issues, go report something. What do we got? I'm going to do a live 18:52.720 --> 18:58.640 demo. I fixed a bug while I was sitting over there too. What did you do too? The one I 18:58.640 --> 19:12.000 introduced last week. They got a one. One by test PCBs. Okay, look at that. Hey, there's a 3D viewer 19:12.000 --> 19:20.720 they can't do anything with except for export steps. So for a high level, people are not so 19:20.720 --> 19:27.600 familiar with free CAD. It uses a system of workbench which is add-ons, specific workbench for 19:27.600 --> 19:33.360 kind of specific workflows. And that's how we've been developing this. There will be all those 19:33.360 --> 19:38.960 tools that I've talked about, panelization and bed of nails. So this will be different parts of the 19:38.960 --> 19:47.840 workbench itself. And again, this is the way that the KaiKad V9 API works. It's a live API. So 19:47.840 --> 19:58.640 it's communicating directly with your running instance. So step files take a little bit along. 19:58.640 --> 20:03.840 The actual parser and the loader is extremely quick. It's the loading the step files that 20:03.840 --> 20:12.800 actually took most of that time. So yeah, there we go. We have a PCB imported and we can go 20:12.800 --> 20:21.360 click all the way down. Auto-constraining is already in there and there's different options that 20:21.360 --> 20:26.160 you can do for auto-constraining. So you know, it's constrained lines. It's connected all the 20:26.160 --> 20:32.320 vertexes together. So try to keep things clean and tidy and then this is even just a good way 20:32.320 --> 20:39.040 if you want good constraints in KaiKad. Just load your PCB over, add all of your constraints, 20:39.120 --> 20:43.760 and then you can push every time you push back, those constraints will just be there. 20:43.760 --> 20:54.720 Dimension all are all sorts of stuff. So, and that's not pretty enough. Let's go real art. 20:54.960 --> 21:19.440 And then, hey, there we go. That's not that. So yeah, it does work. And then that was dumb though. 21:19.440 --> 21:26.080 So then we can pull it back over. So that's the bidirectional support. A lot of the focus recently 21:26.080 --> 21:31.680 has really just been around board outlines. It is pulling, as it is pulling in parts right now, 21:31.680 --> 21:39.680 but it's just any major changes and I want it trust that. But as the sketch and the board outlines 21:40.080 --> 21:47.440 have really been informing the basis of everything at the moment. As that work is kind of nearing 21:48.400 --> 21:53.200 satisfactory completeness. I'm going to start revisiting the other stuff. There's already 21:53.200 --> 21:58.400 base work on traces and graphics and stuff. But again, I want, as I said at the beginning, I want 21:58.400 --> 22:06.800 to get those base classes really saddled. And then I'll start revisiting those parts of it. 22:08.160 --> 22:15.440 So yeah, a lot of cool stuff in the pipeline. Huge thanks to the FPA for helping me work on this. 22:16.400 --> 22:22.640 I had a really tough financial year last year. So having the grant come through was a big deal. 22:23.280 --> 22:34.160 And I've done any how. You didn't even need to hold that sign up. So questions. 22:35.760 --> 22:36.240 All right. 22:36.720 --> 22:53.840 Hi. You mentioned like cases and enclosures and things like that. And I've used the both 22:53.840 --> 23:00.560 Kai-Kad and Fee-Kad independently, but I'm also a big open S-Kad user, especially for 23:00.560 --> 23:09.440 like iterating on cases, motor mounts, things where you can just like script something, 23:09.440 --> 23:15.680 get a dozen different versions. As an STL, I exported out in front of it. And I just pick from, 23:15.680 --> 23:23.120 you know, so any plans for earth thoughts about, you know, up in S-Kad integration. 23:23.680 --> 23:28.320 We'll just off the top of my head using the OpenF-Kad work badge in free-Kad. 23:29.280 --> 23:34.000 You could just do a Boolean. So like the example I gave, if we could create, 23:34.800 --> 23:40.240 automatically create a 3D bounding box that takes all your components into consideration as well, 23:40.880 --> 23:45.360 make a solid out of that. You could just do a Boolean negative on whatever your, 23:46.160 --> 23:50.000 OpenS-Kad output is. And again, like it would be something that 23:51.760 --> 23:57.040 you could just continually update and the Boolean would just be correct along with it. 23:58.320 --> 24:02.000 So yeah, that would be one easy way off the top of my head. Beyond that, 24:03.280 --> 24:10.240 I don't know enough OpenS-Kad to see exactly how it would be integrated into that itself. 24:12.000 --> 24:15.600 Okay, what's just fine? Because I don't really know all that much about, I don't know as much 24:15.600 --> 24:23.920 about Fee-Kad either, so. So it does have an OpenS-Kad work badge, and it puts free-Kad solids. 24:24.000 --> 24:28.480 So then, yeah, Boolean operations would work right out of that. Okay. 24:34.720 --> 24:41.360 Other questions? You got lots of time. Oh, here's a, surely a tough one from Climit. 24:43.760 --> 24:49.520 Don't make me fall off the stage. No, no. Yeah, so what are you missing in terms of 24:49.520 --> 24:53.600 functionality in free-Kad and Kee-Kad that would make your life much easier? 24:56.720 --> 25:00.000 It's really just that synchronization of multiple parts. 25:02.560 --> 25:08.000 And then also to be able to, to be able to view the same parts in different ways. So like, 25:08.000 --> 25:13.680 when I designed the cacophony, I designed it like this. It was in 3D, like 13 panels 25:14.400 --> 25:22.160 in this 3D form. And then I would have to break them all down flat. I had a second view where there were 25:22.160 --> 25:28.560 clones of all the same parts, but then they were laid flat. And then what I was missing was that ability to, 25:28.560 --> 25:36.560 I want a one-click third view that's the bridges, the panelization parts that bring everything together. 25:36.560 --> 25:42.560 That was always the goal of this. And then just everything else to get to that point is useful for other people. 25:43.200 --> 25:46.160 That, for me, that was the big, just kind of missing feature. 25:49.760 --> 25:52.560 Lots of ugly Python scripts to attempt to address it. 25:59.520 --> 26:00.560 Give me a work out here. 26:01.200 --> 26:03.200 Okay. 26:08.480 --> 26:11.680 Hi, great work. Thanks for, thanks first of all. 26:13.840 --> 26:23.520 What happens if you changed the border of the board in Kee-Kad and imported back? 26:23.520 --> 26:29.200 And what does it do to top a naming problem, like introducing new edges and that kind of stuff? 26:31.040 --> 26:35.280 It would be really pedantic and I've been avoiding trying to say this for a long time. 26:35.280 --> 26:40.000 And I think you and I and a lot of free KAD people should be on the same page. 26:40.000 --> 26:44.800 Top of topological naming solution. The problem is a name by reference. 26:46.800 --> 26:48.080 Yeah, good luck. 26:50.800 --> 26:57.120 I mean, you know what a sticky problem that is. So it's a name by reference by name problem. 26:57.120 --> 27:04.000 So if your names are going to be changing, you're going to have, you're just going to have the 27:04.000 --> 27:05.360 problems that come along with that. 27:09.040 --> 27:15.760 So do you recommend them to just update it in free KAD? Or, you know, is there, so it's not fully 27:15.760 --> 27:19.680 bidirectional, perhaps? Maybe it's better to change it in free KAD? 27:19.680 --> 27:25.680 Yeah, and it depends on what your, what you're doing in the long run. 27:25.680 --> 27:29.040 Like, what your workflow looks like and what your goals look like. 27:29.040 --> 27:34.480 But for me, I would probably, my workflow kind of looks like I'm going to do my very first rough 27:34.480 --> 27:40.640 pass in KAD. And then everything else is going to be done in free KAD. And it will just be a push 27:40.640 --> 27:48.240 process after that. Board outlines one way parts the other way is almost certainly how I would 27:48.240 --> 27:53.920 be approaching it. And then I don't think I'm like trying to picture away where I would be 27:53.920 --> 28:03.040 a situation in which I would be doing reference by name on to my PCB. Because again, I would 28:03.040 --> 28:10.880 use something like doing a 3D bounding box and a bullion. So then you don't have to do a geometric 28:10.880 --> 28:18.240 reference. You've just got this object that that references your entire part. And that's just 28:18.240 --> 28:26.240 my free KAD workflow in general. I avoid geometric references as much as possible. 28:30.560 --> 28:40.880 More questions? All right. Oh, no. I should have put two names in there. 28:41.360 --> 28:51.360 If you have, like, if you're working on a project, I've worked on a project where I had a really 28:51.360 --> 28:58.400 fixed constraint there, we have for an enclosure. Is there any way and then endlessly sort of 28:58.400 --> 29:04.160 swapping components in my KAD? Is there a way for there to be like a collision warning that 29:04.160 --> 29:09.680 pops up that doesn't sort of update your, it just tells you that new component is going to 29:10.240 --> 29:16.960 Yeah, that I don't know the answer to that. But that is in my features list already. That was one of 29:16.960 --> 29:22.320 the suggestions that I got at Kicon as well. Is, yeah, just straight up collision detection. 29:22.320 --> 29:26.960 Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it's achievable. I just haven't quite looked into what it would take. 29:27.600 --> 29:30.960 And there's probably a handful different ways to approach it. Super nice feature. 29:30.960 --> 29:32.960 But yeah, it's on the features list for sure. 29:40.640 --> 29:44.400 All right. Thank you very much, Morgan. Yep. Oh, it's big y'all. 29:49.840 --> 29:52.960 And if you want to check out the company, I've got both the 3D and