WEBVTT

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The audience, welcome to the third talk on this topic, how to stay sustainable on

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the open source, Marco and Asaki, welcome, give him a warm-out applause place.

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Thank you.

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So, who pays your bills?

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That's a very good question, and it's something that I want to explore a little bit today,

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slightly anecdotically.

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So, don't take me, it's more out of experience than there's not big theory behind this.

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It's what I lived in the last 13, 14 years.

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As you can see, I kind of have a couple of hats that are related to geography.

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I'm a geography, I'm a geography originally.

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So, I live in this fantastic bubble that is the geoword.

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We always get to deal with data that is outside.

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We get to go in the mountains that was where they dreamt of at the beginning.

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Reality looks a bit different now, but still that's what I care deeply about.

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And usually, I keep talks in a geobubble.

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Now, for these, I had a couple of two three slides at the beginning to kind of give you a background of what I'm talking about.

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I don't know who of you knows QGIS.

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Okay, that makes it much easier for me.

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QGIS is kind of your main tool to make maps in the open word source.

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So, in the open source words, sorry.

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It's really big we're talking about 20 million openings per month of people that are actually telling us that they are doing it.

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So, low estimates.

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And then the next actor of this story is Q field, which is something I invented back in 2011.

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And it is a mobile application for QGIS.

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It allows us or it allows people to go out in the field and digitize data that they care about out there.

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I don't know.

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Their cables running underground or they favor it mushroom peaking sides.

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Or you really have this wide range of use that are happening.

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And then there is a company, which is the company that I found 10 years ago, which is called OpenGIS, that is behind one of these behind of Q field and one of the main contributor of QGIS.

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I will talk a lot about those three examples because they are very linked to each other in very interlink to my life as well obviously.

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And because they are very, very, very relevant to the question who pays your bills.

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And this was when I was finished with university university, university asked me to go and in Zurich, the university department of geography asked me to go and give a seminar on entrepreneurship and open source.

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I was super happy I gave it a couple of years.

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And one year there was a guy in the back of the room that asked, I asked in the end of them, seminar like any more questions anybody that really would like to know something that it's not clear yet.

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And he raises and he says, well, who pays your bills?

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And I was like, well, that's a very, very, very interesting question.

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I wasn't by myself back then. OpenGIS was one man show doing some developments in QGIS doing some consultancy doing teaching and so on and so on.

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And then moment was like, okay, well, I'm going to try to answer you obviously.

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And I did try to answer him.

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Turns out this guy, Matthias, is now the CEO of OpenGIS.

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We created the company together from like my single entity thing to something a bit bigger.

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And by asking something that most people don't like asking.

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Most people are kind of afraid in open source.

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We have this very, very bad tendency of thinking that money is something we should not talk about.

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And that's really wrong because we are working.

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We are doing cool things as well in the evenings and volunteer and for passion and everything.

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And that's really good.

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And that's why I like this environment so much.

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But we're also giving a lot of value.

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We've seen it this morning in the keynote, how much value we're producing.

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And we just need to be aware of that.

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We are working.

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And that's good.

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That's okay.

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There's nothing that in that at all.

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And this question shaped obviously our future.

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Because in the origin and how I came to start OpenGIS at the very beginning is because I didn't want to be abandoned.

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In in in GIS and geographic information system there is another proprietary product or company that is like a four billion company revenue per year.

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That at university gives you all these CDs back then still with all the software you.

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That's no, sorry.

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That gives you all the software you can imagine every single feature functionality that you can use during your studies.

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But when you're finished with your studies and you want to start a company while you're first thing that you will do is crack that

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property or a sector and I'm not abandoned.

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I didn't want to do that.

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I didn't want to be to have my first professional activity being stealing.

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And this is how I moved.

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Well, that's what it is.

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That's why I started looking into open source back in 2006 and I found QGIS.

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And then realizing with time did we have challenges.

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Who fans us?

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The choice to me.

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I really like the environment we've been.

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But I think that the free software foundation did a huge mistake with the naming because this creates us as companies and as containers.

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This thing that free means four free as in beer and free as in open and in freedom.

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It is just making life really difficult to tell people that it is not free as in beer and people do not understand what that means.

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We heard this morning that you get a browser that is for free without cost but you are the cost.

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And then we need to go out and explain that over and over again and pity because the concept is fantastic.

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The naming was suboptimal and unfortunately weren't there a lot.

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And then the concept of cathedral or bizarre.

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What I think and what I want to talk to you about today is that there are three things that we need to balance.

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So when we have a project and we are running it and want to make sustainable we need to look at three major point.

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What we want to talk about or project the community and the business.

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How do they combine how do I see them and what do I think makes sense.

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First of all, you need a product or a project that makes sense.

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That is helpful for people and that is tailored for people.

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And this is what I see as the brain.

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If you don't have something that is focused on user needs.

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I don't think it will grow much.

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If you want to grow something, you need to think about your users.

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In QGAs and Q field, we are solving problems that were there.

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QGAs was started 22 years ago by somebody that needed to be able to look at vectors, polygons that were stored in PostgreSQL.

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It started QGAs and now it is amazing too.

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Q field I started it because I didn't want to be inside all the time and I knew the data are outside and I wanted something mobile to run on my Android device.

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So that is what I started.

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And here I think is really important to consider also how you treat engineers in an open-source project.

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I like to across a lot. If people want something to happen, they can make it happen.

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But they also have to make it.

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Then your product or your project need a vision.

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If you are not telling your user where you are going, they don't know what you stand for.

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With Q field, we know that we want to empower people to map and understand their word.

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That is what we are telling them. This is what we trust. This is where we are going.

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This is where Q field wants to go. It is going to be the tool for you.

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That helps you doing these things. With QGAs, we want to be spatial without compromise.

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I know it is marketing but language matters. People react to whether you tell them if you are saying the truth obviously.

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These are things that we care deeply about in those two projects.

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These are things that we want those project to represent.

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Second element, the community. I see that as the heart.

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You might have a big brain and be super smart but if there is no heart pumping blood, there is nothing happening.

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Here is really your users, your contributors.

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Take care not to think only of developers as your community. There are many projects that automatically see the developers are the community.

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Yes, but not only. Everybody that translates your project, everybody that helps you push your project.

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Even companies that are pushing it out, all those should be part of your community.

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There is one currency and that is trust.

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You do things not in a two trustworthy manner, you lose your trust, your project community starts going away.

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We heard this morning, what has she called it? That is a rather big step towards losing trust, but the community moved to the next project.

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You might have a heartbeat, you might be very smart, but without legs, you are not really going forward.

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Here is what I really see the development.

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Now, in QGIS, we will see later, it is really this buzzer model where multiple companies are involved in Q-field.

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There is more one company, but we will see more in detail there.

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Here is really how the product is developed. What kind of services are there around?

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Is there a monetization model that works?

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We have partnership, sponsorship, donations, and so on, and so on.

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These are all things that you need to go and look into detail.

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As I said, there are different models.

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I don't say that there is one model that works well or another that doesn't work.

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In QGIS, we really have this vibrant buzzer, where you have 10 different companies committing to core.

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What they have been building for their clients.

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You have volunteers committing to core.

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There is a process upfront where if you want to do big changes, you need to submit an enhancement proposal.

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So, this very grassroots bottom-up kind of complete openness.

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It's super nice. It makes one thing very difficult, and that is steering requirements.

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You can not, or you can much more hardly say we want to go in that direction,

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because the founding is coming from clients.

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The bottom from volunteers at the bottom that are just bringing up features,

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and it's really difficult to manage which way you want to go.

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You're just more going with the flow wherever your user are actually willing to put effort into and to finance the development.

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On the Q-field side,

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we have chosen, or I have chosen back then, a bit of a different path,

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where the company that I created, OpenGIS, is pushing the project, is a GPL project.

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And we try to mirror everything that is in QGIS,

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so the openness and other companies can contribute to, but there is much more of a project given direction by OpenGIS.

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In this whole story, going from who pays your bills,

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where I was by myself, skiing mostly every morning and working in the afternoon,

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to now a group of 40 people,

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I learned that there are things that are very important in open source,

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but also in business.

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If you just see, if you're got all the business part of it,

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it's going to be difficult to build a company that constantly sustained projects in open source.

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We are one of the main sponsors of QGIS itself.

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We have five core developers that keep on investing way more than what we heard this morning,

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like this half a day per 20 developers.

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We have seven developers and they are investing seven like their time in QGIS.

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So it's, you can build something that really pushes projects forward

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if you put passion into what you're doing.

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I've always been very passionate about my work.

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I say along the way, I had seven different jobs, 20 heads and a thousand decisions.

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In case you are considering creating a company,

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to me, the biggest step was hiring someone.

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That is something that was really hard.

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The first employee is suddenly somebody that you need to pay,

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and that you need to be responsible for that was a big step,

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but absolutely awarded to get where we got now.

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As I say, we invest a lot.

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But now the interesting part.

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How did we finance those projects?

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How did we get Q field from my last three university credits

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as a Google summer of code into an application?

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The now has half a million active users per month over two million downloads.

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The first thing we did was we got clients interested and asked

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what does it need to do?

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What would you be willing to pay me for making this better?

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Up to two or three years ago, that was the main revenue of the project.

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It was really going out, building up features in Q field,

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building up things that were needed.

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Obviously, in the early stages of software, that's much easier,

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because there's a lot of things that you need to do,

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so it's relatively easy to find somebody that will finance some functionality.

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What we also did was we were cross financing development,

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the consulting, the teaching,

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so we were giving courses on Q field,

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and that would generate revenue that we would then reinvest in development,

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consulting the same thing.

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And because we believed in the project a lot,

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we did internal investments also from the company,

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from other revenue streams that we had.

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Now, after that, that doesn't scale.

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I mean, you need to go out, you need to find clients,

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you need to have developers that always ties

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into somebody as dictating the roadmap.

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And that's okay.

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But there are, I think, much nicer way to go,

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and that is when we created Q field cloud,

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which is also an MIT licensed open source product

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that we offer also as a paid service.

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And there, we were able to start building

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of other where revenue is coming in.

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We can take it and use it for development the way that we want.

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We can start suddenly have a roadmap.

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We can go in at the direction we want.

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We can ask our users what would you like,

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what is the most important thing,

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but we don't have to ask them,

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can you please pay for it?

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And that's a huge difference,

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because we can suddenly just listen to all the users,

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not only to the one that also happened to have some cash around.

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And we're enforced that by response or sheep and donations.

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What made it a success is that from the first day,

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it was really about what is needed.

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I think that's really key.

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Bazaar energy,

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cathedral clarity is something

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that I know some people don't like at all.

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Do you have the cathedral model in there?

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I like the lot, personal choices.

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Because I know how I am,

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I know that it will not turn into a way,

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and it's GPS.

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So, tied feedback loop and invested in convenience,

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because what I think,

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if you want to take something from my talk today,

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this is a slide you need to take care of.

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Monatize on convenience,

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never, ever, on freedoms.

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All we do is out there.

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People can take it, run it,

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everything for themselves.

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There's no problem with me for them doing that.

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What I want to be able to offer is for somebody,

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to very easily be able to pay a service.

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So, that we get money back for development.

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Because by monetizing on convenience,

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you are not touching anybody's freedoms.

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You are actually allowing anybody to use

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world-class software with a little bit of investment by themselves.

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They need to invest their time,

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because they need to run their service themselves.

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We even go further,

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and we offer a free, like,

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you can, if you're doing community work,

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or if you're just doing small work for yourself,

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you're just used to give it a call for free.

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But the fact that we are allowing people

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to just use the service,

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a paid service is really, really important,

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because that allows us to sustainably maintain the old project.

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The other thing we try to do at OpenGIS

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as a company is to connect the dots.

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Also, convenience, big enterprises,

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like things that just work for them.

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So, try to connect the dots.

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Obviously, we support all the project.

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We even created a sustainability initiative for QGS,

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even though we are just a company.

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What we say is,

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every single support contract we do with a client.

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We take all the time that the client doesn't use during the year.

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We give it back to this sustainability initiative.

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That gives us three or four hundred hours per year of clients,

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hours that are just paid by clients,

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but we invest them upstream.

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And the other thing we do is that we say,

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for every support contract we do,

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we also put in a half a day of work in the initiative.

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So, we do this kind of work.

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Because in this triangle,

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you need to balance the three things.

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You do need to create the balance that,

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or maintain the balance that creates sustainability.

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Because if you wait one too much,

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then you are super commercial.

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Community goes away.

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You lose the community.

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The project is gone.

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If you do too much community,

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and you don't have money,

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then you are in trouble.

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Your maintainers burn out.

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If you do too much product,

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that don't have money,

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and don't have community.

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Well, you're in trouble yourself.

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So, it's really very difficult to manage these balance.

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And to me, the lessons that I learned

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was really first I need value.

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And then I can monetize sustainably.

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I need to diversify the revenue streams,

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and I need to keep upstream healthy.

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Because if I don't invest in upstream,

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I'm cutting my own legs.

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How we mitigate the risks,

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build teams instead of single persons,

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have reserves and diversification.

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If we keep on contributing upstream,

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the possibility to have force is much smaller.

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And obviously, that's paramount for us

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is big, open source citizens.

22:00.100 --> 22:03.100
Because open source is a real business opportunity,

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which fantastic side effects,

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I keep getting picture like this saying,

22:08.100 --> 22:09.100
thank you for Qfield,

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because now we can manage our forest,

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and it cost us nothing.

22:14.100 --> 22:16.100
And on the other side,

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I get businesses using it to say,

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like our super efficient,

22:19.100 --> 22:21.100
really cool, how can we sustain,

22:21.100 --> 22:23.100
and I just see the money coming in from here,

22:23.100 --> 22:25.100
and going out the other side,

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as a product,

22:26.100 --> 22:28.100
feels a little bit robin hoodie,

22:28.100 --> 22:30.100
and I really like that a lot.

22:30.100 --> 22:32.100
Takeaways,

22:32.100 --> 22:34.100
as I said before,

22:34.100 --> 22:37.100
whatever you rely on, that's basic.

22:37.100 --> 22:39.100
Having a good community pays back in the end,

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because they are turning into our main ambassadors now,

22:43.100 --> 22:46.100
and sustainability is not magic,

22:46.100 --> 22:49.100
is something you need to keep investing time in,

22:49.100 --> 22:52.100
it loops and it sustain itself.

22:52.100 --> 22:55.100
If you want to know more about QJS Qfield

22:55.100 --> 22:57.100
in my hometown, actually,

22:57.100 --> 23:00.100
that's where I live in October.

23:00.100 --> 23:02.100
We have a big conference,

23:02.100 --> 23:04.100
and not as big as for STEM.

23:04.100 --> 23:07.100
Come by and decide that.

23:07.100 --> 23:08.100
Thank you very much.

23:08.100 --> 23:09.100
And if you have any questions,

23:09.100 --> 23:12.100
I think I still have two minutes, three minutes.

23:12.100 --> 23:17.100
APPLAUSE

23:17.100 --> 23:20.100
Many thanks for the inspiring talk.

23:20.100 --> 23:23.100
Questions from the audience.

23:33.100 --> 23:35.100
OK, no question.

23:35.100 --> 23:37.100
Sorry.

23:41.100 --> 23:43.100
Hi, thanks for the talk.

23:43.100 --> 23:45.100
I was wondering if you could clarify

23:45.100 --> 23:47.100
how exactly, I guess,

23:47.100 --> 23:52.100
the structure works between open GIS,

23:52.100 --> 23:54.100
QJS, and Qfield,

23:54.100 --> 23:56.100
as it kind of like open GIS,

23:56.100 --> 23:57.100
it's at the top,

23:57.100 --> 23:59.100
and then the two sort of feet into it,

23:59.100 --> 24:01.100
or how does that interaction look?

24:01.100 --> 24:05.100
So, QJS is a foundation association,

24:05.100 --> 24:08.100
completely separated.

24:08.100 --> 24:13.100
Open GIS is one of the core contributors of QJS.

24:13.100 --> 24:15.100
So, the company, my company,

24:15.100 --> 24:18.100
is one of the main contributor to QJS,

24:18.100 --> 24:20.100
and my company is also the one

24:20.100 --> 24:23.100
that is the lead contributor in Qfield.

24:23.100 --> 24:29.100
And Qfield is QJS core,

24:30.100 --> 24:32.100
with striped all the UI,

24:32.100 --> 24:35.100
and basically with another user interface on top.

24:35.100 --> 24:38.100
But very often when we need something in Qfield,

24:38.100 --> 24:40.100
we can do it in QJS,

24:40.100 --> 24:42.100
and then it comes back because it's part of the,

24:42.100 --> 24:43.100
so we need, I don't know,

24:43.100 --> 24:46.100
a new rendering engine for polygons.

24:46.100 --> 24:48.100
We can do it in QJS,

24:48.100 --> 24:50.100
so the old QJS ecosystem gets it,

24:50.100 --> 24:54.100
and then because we have a QJS core in Qfield,

24:54.100 --> 24:55.100
we get it back.

24:55.100 --> 24:57.100
So, we do a lot of upstream work

24:57.100 --> 25:00.100
instead of do it in Qfield again.

25:00.100 --> 25:03.100
There she is.

25:03.100 --> 25:04.100
So, just to clarify,

25:04.100 --> 25:06.100
when you were saying a contribute upstream,

25:06.100 --> 25:09.100
do you mean contribute upstream to QJS?

25:09.100 --> 25:10.100
Okay, cool.

25:10.100 --> 25:12.100
Yes, when I was talking about upstream

25:12.100 --> 25:14.100
for us, it's clearly QJS.

25:14.100 --> 25:17.100
So, when we need something in Qfield,

25:17.100 --> 25:18.100
and we can,

25:18.100 --> 25:20.100
and it makes sense to do it in QJS,

25:20.100 --> 25:23.100
we do it in QJS.

25:24.100 --> 25:26.100
And even for the upstream,

25:26.100 --> 25:27.100
GDAL posters,

25:27.100 --> 25:30.100
wherever it makes more sense to do,

25:30.100 --> 25:31.100
we try to go,

25:31.100 --> 25:33.100
always go as far up as possible

25:33.100 --> 25:34.100
into things,

25:34.100 --> 25:38.100
because then the effect is much bigger.

25:40.100 --> 25:41.100
Marko,

25:41.100 --> 25:42.100
many thanks,

25:42.100 --> 25:46.100
and small present from the conference,

25:46.100 --> 25:47.100
and please,

25:47.100 --> 25:49.100
another former applause.

25:49.100 --> 25:50.100
Thank you.

25:53.100 --> 25:55.100
Thank you.