WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:12.800 Hi everybody, thanks for coming to our last talk, the only draw we have is there that you 00:12.800 --> 00:18.800 just all, you know, funneled in through. This one is not available. Please try to, I don't 00:18.800 --> 00:22.640 think anyone's going to slip out early from this one, but I don't think any of you can, 00:22.640 --> 00:27.760 obviously, I'm going to give you that. But do try to be quite the tables to make a lot of noise 00:27.760 --> 00:34.560 and up and down, and if we have a lot of that, this is what I'm going to do with that. 00:36.560 --> 00:41.520 It's that two minutes early, and I think that recording starts already. So whenever you're 00:41.520 --> 00:46.080 right, you just go. Yeah, I can start. I'm really happy to see so many people, 00:46.080 --> 00:53.920 welcome everybody. Thank you for your interest in Debian. And well, just to start, 00:54.640 --> 01:00.160 I had this talk about the birthday, and I thought it would be a good idea to express this in 01:00.160 --> 01:09.200 binary. And in the key of the I had this talk, they made even a cake. So we are Debian is now in binary 01:09.200 --> 01:16.640 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 years old. And I think this is quite some age. It makes, 01:16.640 --> 01:26.960 well, my, I'm a Debian developer since 1998. I started using it in 1996. This is more than half 01:26.960 --> 01:34.960 of my life. Something, well, I started with punching cards, and this is, I've seen quite some 01:36.160 --> 01:46.160 things in, in IT world, and I think given it's the greatest for me. And since one year and 01:46.160 --> 01:53.840 nine months, I'm a Debian project leader, it is a job I would have never imagined that I would 01:53.840 --> 02:03.760 do it at all, but maybe someone here in the room is also never imagined that he or she will be this, 02:03.760 --> 02:10.560 but you can never be sure. So because to for me was this, is Debian relevant these days, 02:10.560 --> 02:16.960 because you have a lot of distributions and whatever. And my main argument that it is relevant 02:16.960 --> 02:23.040 is the so-called pop-com, pop-com popularity contest. If you're in Saudi Debian system, 02:23.040 --> 02:30.000 do you please say yes, if you're asked that you want to try and pop-com, then we know what we 02:30.000 --> 02:36.800 are using and we can care for the packages we are using. And the fact that the most used package 02:36.800 --> 02:47.120 in Debian, which is here, well, it's pal-based, but you also see it's growing the graph. So 02:47.120 --> 02:53.920 that means we have more and more users who are switching on pop-com, and I'm proud about this. 02:55.440 --> 03:03.360 What the correlation with my term is probably, I don't make this call, this is just the same time. 03:03.360 --> 03:12.800 I think I did not contribute to this, actually graph. I'm also happy that Debian is tested. 03:12.800 --> 03:19.680 We have auto-packaged tests, so we have some CI running. This is also continuously increased, 03:20.480 --> 03:27.280 which is good, because I think this is a good feature of Debian that we are testing, 03:27.280 --> 03:36.960 but we are distributing. We have also some interesting features about package maintenance, 03:37.760 --> 03:47.520 and here I think I contribute a little bit because, at the top before, said it's about 03:47.920 --> 03:59.200 maintaining the package in a common forge. We decided for a GitLab instance for people who cared 03:59.200 --> 04:12.560 to adjust it, and I have put some focus that we have really all Debian packages in this GitLab 04:12.560 --> 04:20.480 instance. Since this graph means we started with no version control system, 100% of packages 04:21.440 --> 04:32.560 in 2006, and then we had some hostings called Elliot, which was replaced by salsa, salsa, 04:32.880 --> 04:42.560 GitLab instance, and you see the green graph is what we now have in salsa, and this graph, 04:42.560 --> 04:50.080 which is not maintained in Git, is decreasing, and here is the start of my term, and you see, 04:50.080 --> 04:58.480 here was a more or less horizontal line, and I feel responsible for this small thing. 04:58.800 --> 05:04.080 But it's a lot of work, right? I come back to this and you see the corresponding line there, 05:04.080 --> 05:09.920 and also interesting effect is this is the trick series release, and after the trick series release, 05:09.920 --> 05:17.600 you see some steeper curve, I come back also to this. So this is about team maintenance 05:17.600 --> 05:27.280 package in Debian, we have for historical reasons. Each package belongs to maintainer, 05:28.400 --> 05:35.200 because when we started with Debian, we had a lot of very good experts for some packages. 05:36.240 --> 05:44.640 But meanwhile we have 60,000 packages, we don't have 60,000 experts for every single package, 05:44.640 --> 05:50.560 and so we are migrating more or less to team maintenance, and I'm thinking it's a good idea, 05:50.560 --> 05:58.960 because in Debian we are all volunteers. We volunteered to do something, but we did not 05:58.960 --> 06:06.240 volunteer to tell the other guys, oh, I'm stopped using or stopped doing anything, so we people are 06:06.240 --> 06:13.680 just managing, and they have no good control about people who just leave Debian silently, 06:13.840 --> 06:21.040 they get children, which is the best reason to do something else, they move away to collect stems, 06:21.040 --> 06:27.120 whatever, but they will not tell, and so we have a problem to detect this, and so if we 06:28.320 --> 06:34.480 move more to team maintenance and lose the strict maintenance, then this could have a good effect. 06:34.880 --> 06:43.120 So I'm not coming back to this after the release is the curve, so we have in Debian we have 06:45.520 --> 06:52.880 releases, these are the red lines, and before release we freeze the actor of state 06:53.920 --> 07:01.680 of the package pool, and only fix release creditor bugs. This means if you only fix release 07:01.760 --> 07:10.800 creditor bugs, you can't open your features, and you can't do this or that, and you see for every 07:10.800 --> 07:18.800 blue line, which is the start of the freeze, the activity drops, and then there are several 07:18.800 --> 07:24.960 leaves, and this goes up. You always can see that this was a migration from 07:24.960 --> 07:29.360 earlier to Salsa, so this is an artifact here, and always also the last 07:30.640 --> 07:36.400 trigger release, it stopped, and then we started working, and the same effect was also 07:36.400 --> 07:43.520 supposed to be by the curve was more steep, because silently people kept on working, and then 07:43.520 --> 07:49.280 they in the upload came and then something happened, so we have no really good solution, 07:50.080 --> 07:57.120 then trying to make the period very short between freeze and release. 07:58.000 --> 08:05.600 So if you want to help Debian and to avoid this, I call it freeze depression, 08:06.320 --> 08:13.280 please help us fix single release creditor bugs. When we are faster, because Debian releases 08:13.280 --> 08:19.360 only, if you are ready, it really means no release creditor bugs, and everybody can contribute 08:19.360 --> 08:26.800 to this, and so you see the time spent are shorter than before, you would to several 08:26.800 --> 08:34.240 scenes and so on and so on, but it could be even shorter. So there are the people 08:35.360 --> 08:43.120 contributing to Debian, you see, these dots are those places where Debian developer 08:44.080 --> 08:51.040 provided their personal data. Some people do not want to provide it, but most of the Debian developers 08:51.040 --> 08:58.240 are about 1,000 people in the world are sitting in these places, you see Europe is quite densely settled, 08:59.680 --> 09:07.600 Northern Americans, Northern Americans, some people in Asia and some people here, I have a different 09:08.240 --> 09:16.720 representation of this. This is the number of developers per country divided by the number of 09:16.720 --> 09:27.040 people inside the country, and you see Finland is winning. Yeah, it's great, we had a great 09:27.040 --> 09:35.920 Debian Finland in 2005, which is really cool, I liked it a lot, maybe it's also some influence 09:36.000 --> 09:41.840 by no care in Finland, you say about supporters, but it's probably also the reason that 09:41.840 --> 09:48.880 in Finland are not so many people. Like here in China, we have probably the absolute number of 09:48.880 --> 09:54.480 developers in China as higher than in Finland, but if you divide it by being so, it's, 09:55.680 --> 10:03.120 but it's interesting because on one hand this graph shows where there could be potentially 10:03.200 --> 10:10.480 more developers, and it also shows the problem in the world, so there you have white spots 10:11.440 --> 10:20.320 between to reach out, we invite people to Debian conferences to get connected. The next Debian 10:20.320 --> 10:27.200 conference will be in Santa Fe, so the red lines are where I joined the Debian conference, 10:28.160 --> 10:36.400 you see, I was on Debian, the next one is Ruby in Santa Fe, they will be most probably 10:36.400 --> 10:42.800 no red line for me because I need to break because I will also stop serving as DPL in April, 10:42.800 --> 10:48.160 but I can only invite everybody to join the Debian conference, that's why I'm hiring this T-shirt 10:48.160 --> 10:56.160 to do some promotion for them. It's always a cool event, Debian conference really great, 10:56.480 --> 11:02.080 so if you like to go to Argentina, it's a good option to join Debian. 11:04.960 --> 11:12.560 So regarding the money we need for, for, for, for, for instance, that comes to me. 11:13.840 --> 11:20.480 This is the graph you had, so it shows we had quite some money at some point in time, but it 11:20.560 --> 11:28.640 also decreases again. If you have some money, we can use money for data and for everything. 11:31.200 --> 11:36.160 Specifically for debt conferences, this is the main amount of money, so if you are a company, 11:37.120 --> 11:46.080 you could put your, your logo on the t-shirts for gold and platinum spondos and you could 11:46.080 --> 11:54.320 support or meeting because if we, if some Debian developers and contributors come together, 11:54.320 --> 12:03.680 this is a really cool thing and inspiring ideas come up and everybody will have profit for me. 12:05.040 --> 12:12.400 So yeah, to, if you want to know how to donate, it is on the Debian website and donations. 12:12.640 --> 12:22.560 Yeah, what, what can I do for you to come to Debian? We try to create an invite environment. 12:23.120 --> 12:30.480 I'm doing a lot of workshops. I'm doing the workshops in the way, I'm asking the audience, 12:30.480 --> 12:36.320 what do you want to package? What do you want to see you in Debian and then we start 12:36.400 --> 12:43.200 packaging your software. This is a kind of practical experience and if you are lucky, 12:43.200 --> 12:48.720 the result is one more package. Well, beyond the way to get to new package, 12:50.080 --> 12:57.120 I'm also trying to do the back of the day. This is an initiative where I try to fix 12:57.120 --> 13:05.360 one back per day and I did really want back per day, starting at the first of August in 13:05.360 --> 13:16.480 2024 and this is also when the curve started to go up or going out of the horizontal tendency, 13:16.480 --> 13:25.600 because we also brought, we did not only fix the back, we also chosen, we have chosen a package 13:25.600 --> 13:29.840 which is not yet on size, and we bring it on size to demonstrate how to do this. 13:30.720 --> 13:36.800 We try to support local meetings, local meetings can be 13:37.920 --> 13:44.000 mini-tabcon, we have a very strong Brazilian and very strong Indian community. 13:45.680 --> 13:50.960 They are doing yearly mini-tabcon, which are really great. They are doing a really good job. 13:50.960 --> 13:57.680 In Hamburg, we'll be a mini-tabcon this year in May and if I think in the second week of May, 13:57.760 --> 14:02.880 so Hamburg is close to Brussels somehow, just join us. 14:04.320 --> 14:12.000 And we also try to simplify packaging, and a lot of stuff has happened in last year, 14:12.000 --> 14:18.800 and basically David is providing some metadata in the control file and the make file, 14:18.800 --> 14:23.280 which is called David Rules, and in the best case it's a two-liner. 14:23.360 --> 14:35.200 So this makes things really easy to package, and yeah, we have always need for newcomers, 14:35.200 --> 14:41.200 so please don't assume David is so great, we don't need help, yes we need you, 14:41.200 --> 14:48.240 we need everybody who wants to contribute, because we have a constant flow out of David, 14:48.240 --> 14:53.840 and so we need the constant flow of new contributors, preferably also, 14:53.840 --> 14:58.800 we need this contributors, because we are quite male dominated, we had some. 14:58.800 --> 15:11.440 This is interesting because 10 years ago, we had kind of statistics, so in IT, women are 25 to 30 percent, 15:11.440 --> 15:16.000 in free software, women are only 15 percent, and David is what's even lower. 15:16.960 --> 15:22.880 I have no explanation for this, and it's hard for me to change it, because 15:23.760 --> 15:32.000 the only way to increase percentage of women in baby and is to leave David, 15:32.000 --> 15:40.400 but I would prefer a better idea, so if women would come, this would have a better effect. 15:40.880 --> 15:51.360 So if you consider to become a David developer, is anybody in IT, what is the most important 15:51.360 --> 15:59.040 feature of a David developer, and the slide hint is that it took me 20 to years, 16:00.880 --> 16:07.440 until a bug I filed was finally fixed, so any ideas, what is the most important feature? 16:10.480 --> 16:17.840 Exactly, patience is the most important feature, so yeah, please be patient, 16:19.440 --> 16:30.320 and in many ways to get the official David and developer status to get some packages in this 16:30.320 --> 16:40.080 part, I'm quite proud that I think I've found the solution for this, and you also 16:42.080 --> 16:49.520 need some skill in communication. Communication, what should I say? We are 16:49.600 --> 17:00.880 technicians, we are in some ways socially focused on technical solutions, not really to communicate 17:00.880 --> 17:08.640 to people. I learned a lot when I was a David project leader, my wife told me, I got better, 17:08.640 --> 17:14.480 I'm proud about this, and I have an actual hint for you, if you have 17:15.440 --> 17:24.000 if you want to write an email, which is complex, not simple, just write it and let it in your draft 17:24.000 --> 17:34.080 follow, for one day, it helps a lot, sometimes you will not send it, then it was no need for it, 17:34.080 --> 17:40.800 just let it let it matter for a day, and then you should always answer your education, 17:40.800 --> 17:49.920 is my mail contributing to some solution, or do I just want to, I'm not happy about this, 17:49.920 --> 17:57.920 blah, blah, blah, this is also in many cases, not really helpful, and what I also did for 18:00.560 --> 18:06.880 well, as a David project leader, you are writing really complex mails, I asked people for peer 18:06.880 --> 18:13.680 review, so what do you think about my draft, is it good, it is good at this time, you can 18:13.680 --> 18:22.960 have better use of better wording, also this is extremely helpful, and if you have no peers, 18:22.960 --> 18:33.200 also, maybe you ask an LLM for help, right, ask this, make it productive, kind, non-acgressive, 18:33.360 --> 18:43.920 this could enhance the discussion, I'm not in general saying, just use, I know, but for this, 18:43.920 --> 18:54.800 specific thing, there is even some scientific research that I tend to make conversation a little bit more 18:54.880 --> 19:03.680 friendly when we are used, then we usually are interesting, or no way, and we also should try to 19:05.120 --> 19:14.400 remove some blockers to other productivity, what do I mean with this, in everybody of us in the 19:14.400 --> 19:22.000 room is very busy, or somebody who said, no, I'm not busy with it, so you are busy and then somebody 19:22.000 --> 19:31.680 needs your help, I'm too busy, I delay it, I have the principal to say, first I help the person who 19:31.680 --> 19:39.120 needs the help, because if this person is idling on the IM working, but if this person can continue, 19:39.120 --> 19:46.480 then two people can work, so please always try to give preference to help others first, 19:47.440 --> 19:57.360 this is what I mean by doubling the productivity, so what I did as a DB and project leader, 19:57.360 --> 20:05.760 so it first I needed some kind of warm-up, learnt something, and after three and a half months, 20:06.880 --> 20:11.680 I started with this bug of the day thinking, I think it was a success because some people 20:12.640 --> 20:20.880 really started to do more work and package themselves, became a DB and maintainers and we also had 20:20.880 --> 20:28.640 some positive effect in the package pool, then we had this, for me it's the right thing, 20:28.640 --> 20:39.440 just the tell our community, the shouldn't support X anymore and provide very, very good content to 20:39.520 --> 20:53.920 somebody who is more excellent, I don't know, this had a lot, thank you, but you give up now, 20:53.920 --> 21:02.960 but we get a lot of lot of angry males, it's not democracy, it is bad, I mean the decision to 21:02.960 --> 21:09.120 pose on Twitter once was also non-democratic chosen to publicity himself, oh, let's post on Twitter, 21:10.320 --> 21:16.800 there was no decision, and then there's decided, we have other ways to communicate, 21:16.800 --> 21:26.480 let's stop to this, oh yeah, so thank you for that class, then we had to upload, 21:26.560 --> 21:34.320 this is actually not really my, there was a lot of preparation, what is tech to upload, 21:34.320 --> 21:42.640 usually we are doing a manual process to upload DB on packages, and some people were very busy 21:42.640 --> 21:53.120 for five or six years to say, okay, everybody is working in kids, let's just take some status, 21:53.120 --> 22:01.200 and this will be done as an upload, this is a modernization of our workflow, this is cool, 22:01.200 --> 22:07.360 but it was complex and a complexity was realized on the technical side, when on the social side, 22:08.160 --> 22:17.280 it's always, and well finally it happened, it's not really not only my work that it happened, 22:17.280 --> 22:25.200 but I think it was something that could be listed here, then I did a new publicity team 22:25.200 --> 22:34.000 delegation, which was also a complex social thing, and depth conference always in very, 22:34.960 --> 22:47.120 very good way to discuss with developers and create new ideas, I was discussing changes 22:47.120 --> 22:58.160 in the FTP master team, FTP master team is are the people who are checking new DB on packages, 22:58.800 --> 23:06.080 if they are compliant with the DB on free software guidelines, this is an important thing to do, 23:07.120 --> 23:15.200 and so we make sure that no non free software and those are archive, and they are also running 23:15.280 --> 23:24.720 all the technical stuff, and I had seen, at this time, problems with this team, we discussed this 23:24.720 --> 23:32.480 in the first stage, and I also discussed about all fan packages, this is the problem that people 23:32.480 --> 23:38.480 just manage and don't do anything anymore with their packages, then most of the tricks are released, 23:39.440 --> 23:47.040 it was great and not only, well, not much for this, except of fixing some RC boxes, 23:47.040 --> 23:56.400 this is a community effort, we had Thursday, 32, Thursday, also binary, I like this, 23:57.920 --> 24:08.240 and as a result of the discussion of the DB on conference, I have split the FTP master team 24:08.240 --> 24:15.680 into an archive operation team and the DFSD team, this was a suggestion actually by a member of 24:15.680 --> 24:24.880 the team, because in principle, these teams had two tasks, one is checking new packages, 24:26.400 --> 24:34.320 for legal license issues, and the other task was running the archive, running the software, 24:34.320 --> 24:47.680 which is distributing packages, and this leads to rotating the delegation of this part of this 24:47.680 --> 24:54.720 format team, the DFSD team, if a member of the new DFSD team here, I'm really happy that she is doing this, 24:55.440 --> 25:06.000 and we all hope that this is for, in the long term, for a more transparent process, 25:06.000 --> 25:14.480 more predictable process, and will be for the profit of DB on it. So, as I said, I will not run again 25:14.560 --> 25:24.080 for the first time, for DPL, and for the last three, once I hope that I will be able to 25:25.680 --> 25:31.440 work a little bit on the problem of often packages, and my aim means missing in action, 25:31.440 --> 25:37.600 we have a team, which is tracking down DB and developers who are missing in action, and this team 25:37.680 --> 25:48.000 is missing in action, and yeah, this is a problem, and I also try to get even more 25:49.040 --> 25:56.800 packages, because I think it's, it's good for cooperation. My favorite lessons for my 25:56.800 --> 26:03.680 term as DPL is formally, I was working very hard for the DB and mid project, this is about 26:03.760 --> 26:11.360 this is a DB on pure blends, for bioinformatics, and I was very active there, and the good 26:11.360 --> 26:17.120 thing is I told my team, I need this time, I spent for the team, I leave you alone, if you are 26:17.120 --> 26:23.840 responsible, I will not contribute to the team anymore until I'm back after being the, and the 26:23.840 --> 26:30.560 very good news is that this team is keeping on working, so if you think about free software projects, 26:30.640 --> 26:38.800 where the main driver is not active anymore, a lot of them, not really work, but I'm really happy 26:38.800 --> 26:49.360 that this is not the case here, and they are working really good. I also learned that you say something 26:50.880 --> 26:59.280 and no response, and this is the hardest to interpret thing, and so well, I had to 27:00.000 --> 27:05.200 optimistic person, I think, okay, then people agree with me, but sure if it is the case, 27:06.240 --> 27:15.280 but they should tell me if not, and I also have to learn that if you, but DB and project leader 27:15.280 --> 27:22.800 is not the person to have to say much, you can do delegations, but other thing is if, as a leader, 27:23.760 --> 27:31.600 you say something, and then you say something, and the volunteer can decide if this is relevant 27:31.600 --> 27:39.920 or not, or whatever, so also have no real power, but anyway people, if you meet people, it's 27:39.920 --> 27:46.880 all they need, and I think if we, we friends are treating me like before, like just Andreas, 27:46.960 --> 27:54.560 find your friends, this tells you, so you can tell the real friends who not look at ranking, 27:54.560 --> 28:03.520 but on the person, and I also learned that I made mistakes as everybody, and I learned that it's 28:03.520 --> 28:11.760 a good idea to say sorry, I made a mistake, and I was really lucky that finally these mistakes 28:11.840 --> 28:18.160 did not have so much bad effects, so I reached the goals, I wanted to reach, and it's also 28:19.200 --> 28:25.360 good lesson. Yeah, that's all for me, time for questions. 28:26.320 --> 28:42.240 Hello, I'm Lucy, just speaking on the subject of, I would highly recommend we watch your 28:42.240 --> 28:47.520 Marcus Kino from this morning, if you haven't seen it, that might be relevant, but my question to you 28:47.520 --> 28:53.600 is, when your retirees do you feel, do you have any ambitions for what you might do in the project next, 28:53.680 --> 29:03.360 the question was, if I will return to debiamate or do something else, I had observed that about 29:03.360 --> 29:11.680 50% of the DPLs we came MIA, I hope so, I will not do, yes, I plan to go back to the debiamate 29:11.680 --> 29:17.680 project and keep on working there, this is my plan. More questions. 29:18.640 --> 29:28.000 You displayed the map of the computer so that there was a lot of fight? Yeah. 29:32.000 --> 29:43.520 Zero, white is zero, yeah, for this is, yeah, zero, even one would be dark blue or so. 29:43.760 --> 29:50.160 Yeah, I would love if we could have more contributors, right? 29:53.200 --> 29:57.200 The debint developer's right, if there might be contributors, this is correct, 29:57.200 --> 30:02.480 official debint developers with a debint.org address, thank you for the, for the 30:02.480 --> 30:11.200 volunteers to provide their location. Yes, if you have a debint developer from here, 30:11.280 --> 30:16.400 who is not providing the location, I don't know, but the probability for this is, 30:16.400 --> 30:24.880 right, I think we have people who are very keen on the, on privacy are more or less located here. 30:27.600 --> 30:34.000 It's, it's my guess. No questions. 30:34.080 --> 30:46.080 Feel free to ask, yeah, partly, yes, the question was, was it fun? Yeah, I think it was, 30:46.080 --> 30:53.440 I learned a lot and learning something is somehow fun. I could have other fun inside even, 30:53.440 --> 31:00.080 I always had fun, but yeah, I think I, I don't regret that I did it. 31:01.040 --> 31:09.280 This is also, there was, yeah, there are recent trends in software about to work by passing 31:09.280 --> 31:14.640 distributions. Are you concerned about that? The question was, there are trends of bypassing 31:14.640 --> 31:21.520 distributions. Yeah, yeah, a bit cargo and so what they're about to talk here about cargo, 31:22.480 --> 31:30.640 and, well, from, I have personally experienced with packaging arpecaches. I'm with this 31:30.640 --> 31:39.200 science field. There's a lot of bioinformatics stuff and actually arpecaches are really easy to 31:39.200 --> 31:46.560 install, but what we are doing is you have a scientific package with which needs 31:47.280 --> 31:53.360 are, these are that others. And we have, indeed, when we have dependencies, so we want to have 31:53.360 --> 32:01.760 a complete, I'm completely running application and if this application needs the arpecaches, 32:01.760 --> 32:10.320 we included, so we package this. This is for, for the arcing. For cargo, I was thinking about 32:10.320 --> 32:18.960 it when hearing this talk, if you have static linking and have a really, the time is up to 32:18.960 --> 32:28.240 onto this question. I have a really low level rust package. Then you have to rebuild everything, 32:28.240 --> 32:36.160 but cargo has no means to resolve dependencies and so on. And I think, for the moment, 32:36.880 --> 32:44.480 as long as cargo has this deficiency, we should package it and also for PIP is similar, 32:44.480 --> 32:56.800 or I'm preferring the packaging. We also, I've seen a short slide about testing. We are testing 32:56.880 --> 33:05.360 that what we distribute as a whole with all these tiny version dependencies will work. 33:06.400 --> 33:13.040 I don't think that is the case for PIP or cargo or whatever you have. We have, but 33:14.480 --> 33:19.920 I can't tell about the future, but for the moment, I think it's a good idea to build the 33:20.000 --> 33:27.920 advantages. I think we need to save it, we can extend a bit to the last talk. I don't mind. 33:27.920 --> 33:34.480 If there are really urgent questions, if you permit, if you permit, that we have more questions. 33:36.480 --> 33:41.440 Oh, they can ask me anyway without audio, so all to come here. 33:49.920 --> 33:52.080 Thank you.