WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:07.360 Without further ado, pass over to you. 00:07.360 --> 00:09.720 Cool, thanks for having me. 00:09.720 --> 00:12.760 Yeah, so I work for the EDPF Foundation 00:12.760 --> 00:16.640 we're focused on the EDPF technology. 00:16.640 --> 00:18.920 And what I'm going to talk to you today 00:18.920 --> 00:21.400 is how we think about funding things 00:21.400 --> 00:24.240 from the EDPF Foundation. 00:24.240 --> 00:27.880 And the one thing I want to walk away from today 00:27.880 --> 00:31.000 is thinking about not just funding individual projects, 00:31.000 --> 00:34.600 but how can we make a whole ecosystem system successful? 00:34.600 --> 00:36.640 Because I believe that's what makes foundations 00:36.640 --> 00:38.680 actually successful. 00:38.680 --> 00:42.640 And the reason why I believe that is because of this, 00:42.640 --> 00:46.080 because on-use is the most common motivation 00:46.080 --> 00:48.160 for people to get into open source. 00:48.160 --> 00:50.840 I can tell you a little bit about my open source journey. 00:50.840 --> 00:52.920 The first thing I ever did in open source 00:52.920 --> 00:54.920 was obviously open in an issue I've get hub, 00:54.920 --> 00:56.240 because something was working. 00:56.240 --> 00:59.360 It wasn't working in a project that I was trying to use. 00:59.360 --> 01:02.280 The second interaction with open source I had 01:02.280 --> 01:03.560 was I found a broken link, 01:03.560 --> 01:06.640 and I was actually trying to contribute a PR back. 01:06.640 --> 01:08.240 I was trying to solve my own problems 01:08.240 --> 01:11.360 first by opening an issue. 01:11.360 --> 01:13.400 And then the second by actually solving my own issue 01:13.400 --> 01:16.040 by finding the link and fixing it for everyone else. 01:16.040 --> 01:18.600 So I guess before I go a little bit further, 01:18.600 --> 01:20.720 I want everybody to turn to their neighbor 01:20.720 --> 01:25.040 and tell them how they got into open source the first time. 01:25.040 --> 01:27.320 Was it owned-use or was it something else? 01:55.040 --> 01:56.040 OK. 02:08.920 --> 02:09.920 OK. 02:12.320 --> 02:16.840 I think hopefully everybody had a little bit of time 02:16.840 --> 02:18.960 to discuss a little bit with their neighbor. 02:18.960 --> 02:20.560 I may be able to spot a conversation 02:20.560 --> 02:21.560 for after this talk. 02:21.560 --> 02:22.600 But I don't have 25 minutes. 02:22.600 --> 02:24.040 We've got to keep it moving. 02:24.040 --> 02:26.920 I would guess in the conversations that happened out there, 02:26.920 --> 02:29.240 at least 40% of you had the same thing. 02:29.240 --> 02:31.880 You got in because you're trying to solve your own itch. 02:31.880 --> 02:35.960 I think that's how a lot of people get into open source. 02:35.960 --> 02:39.160 And I think this is super common because people are trying 02:39.160 --> 02:41.720 to solve what they're doing. 02:41.720 --> 02:45.520 They're trying to help themselves get what they need 02:45.520 --> 02:46.920 to out of open source. 02:46.920 --> 02:50.800 I may use open source for my own job. 02:50.800 --> 02:52.920 Or as we'll see further than the presentation, 02:52.920 --> 02:55.440 a company uses open source to own the market. 02:55.440 --> 02:58.400 You're trying to solve your own problem 02:58.400 --> 02:59.720 by using open source. 02:59.720 --> 03:01.920 And I think this is the primary motivator 03:01.920 --> 03:06.680 in a great way to drive funding in the open source ecosystem. 03:06.680 --> 03:09.680 Because open source is kind of the buy product. 03:09.680 --> 03:11.680 It's not the actual kind of reason. 03:11.680 --> 03:14.320 People don't do open source because they 03:14.320 --> 03:16.000 are trying to build something a lot of times 03:16.000 --> 03:19.200 is because they're trying to solve a problem. 03:19.200 --> 03:20.920 People are trying to solve problems 03:20.920 --> 03:24.480 and not trying to create EDPF as a technology. 03:24.480 --> 03:27.000 You're trying to solve problems within the Linux kernel. 03:27.000 --> 03:29.080 Open source is built by people's 03:29.080 --> 03:32.320 that are on their free time at universities, 03:32.320 --> 03:34.920 research labs, funded by their companies 03:34.920 --> 03:39.120 because they need to solve a specific problem 03:39.120 --> 03:42.400 either in their life, in their professional life. 03:42.400 --> 03:44.560 And the great thing about that is when 03:44.560 --> 03:46.720 you're thinking about how can we fund the maintenance 03:46.720 --> 03:48.360 of open source software? 03:48.360 --> 03:50.880 Well, if an employer has an own use thing 03:50.880 --> 03:52.800 for a variety of different reasons, 03:52.800 --> 03:55.200 a lot of that maintenance can happen on the job. 03:55.200 --> 03:58.080 How can we drive it through employers, for example, 03:58.080 --> 04:02.360 or companies, or research institutions, or governments? 04:02.360 --> 04:07.160 What is the own use case for getting funding into open source? 04:07.160 --> 04:10.880 Because I think open source is really shifted in the last, 04:10.880 --> 04:16.000 let's say, 10 years from I'm solving this to do my own company 04:16.000 --> 04:18.520 or personal thing to more of a strategic thing. 04:18.520 --> 04:20.720 Like how can we own the market? 04:20.720 --> 04:22.000 How can we change things? 04:22.000 --> 04:25.480 You can see a lot of large companies getting into open source 04:25.480 --> 04:26.480 right now. 04:26.480 --> 04:28.960 It's no longer just like a tactical decision. 04:28.960 --> 04:31.960 OK, we need to have better scalability in our software system. 04:31.960 --> 04:33.160 It's more of a strategic one. 04:33.160 --> 04:34.920 It's how can we shape this market? 04:34.920 --> 04:37.880 And that has brought a lot of funding into open source, too. 04:37.880 --> 04:40.000 You can see the investments that large companies 04:40.000 --> 04:41.360 are making into open source. 04:41.360 --> 04:45.200 It's not side projects and home labs anymore. 04:45.200 --> 04:47.360 It's large companies relying on this. 04:47.360 --> 04:50.560 So in this shift from own use at a personal level, 04:50.560 --> 04:53.280 towards own use at a strategic company level, 04:53.280 --> 04:55.480 that brings a lot of opportunities for us 04:55.480 --> 04:59.320 for looking for funding in the open source ecosystem. 04:59.320 --> 05:01.360 If you think about what's really changed, 05:01.360 --> 05:04.640 is in the early open source days, it was companies usually 05:04.640 --> 05:09.840 adopted it because it was a way to lower their costs versus a proprietary 05:09.840 --> 05:13.440 vendor, use the same version as somebody else. 05:13.440 --> 05:16.000 It didn't really have a lot of business differentiation. 05:16.000 --> 05:18.320 Whereas this more modern approach companies 05:18.320 --> 05:20.600 are taking to open source. 05:20.600 --> 05:23.680 Is they're looking for control of an ecosystem 05:23.680 --> 05:25.680 at using it as a platform of innovation, 05:25.680 --> 05:29.280 being able to fork and customize it to their own use, 05:29.280 --> 05:33.160 their own needs that they have, or using open source as the business 05:33.160 --> 05:36.880 model accelerator, or as the actual model itself. 05:36.880 --> 05:39.480 So it's not just individuals' contributors, companies, 05:39.480 --> 05:44.040 or people putting developers behind open source. 05:44.040 --> 05:49.240 And we can see this transition happened at both the individual level 05:49.240 --> 05:51.480 and the ecosystem level too. 05:51.480 --> 05:55.480 So one was large companies had new scale. 05:55.480 --> 05:57.560 They had new needs that weren't there before. 05:57.560 --> 05:59.320 They were trying to solve the problems that they had 05:59.320 --> 06:01.320 in their own infrastructure as they're building 06:01.320 --> 06:05.360 at no large data centers or getting new volumes of data. 06:05.360 --> 06:07.200 They're able to attract by their talent. 06:07.200 --> 06:08.960 How do we recruit and retain people? 06:08.960 --> 06:11.040 That's the own use in the personal company. 06:11.040 --> 06:14.200 But then switching over to the strategic side, 06:14.200 --> 06:16.560 it's also looking at how can companies control 06:16.560 --> 06:20.600 the control ecosystems, how can they open source things 06:20.600 --> 06:23.040 to undercut their competitors, 06:23.040 --> 06:25.960 how can we deal with changes in the marketplace? 06:25.960 --> 06:27.560 All this is driven a lot of companies 06:27.560 --> 06:31.120 in a lot of funding into open source. 06:31.120 --> 06:35.560 And so that brings me to the EVPF Foundation. 06:35.560 --> 06:37.600 And what we do at the EVPF Foundation, 06:37.600 --> 06:43.680 actually, how many people here have ever heard of EVPF before? 06:43.680 --> 06:45.160 OK, I'll just in the EVPF Devrim. 06:45.160 --> 06:47.040 So it's a big switch right now. 06:47.040 --> 06:49.200 So I've put a slide in here to explain a little bit 06:49.200 --> 06:50.600 about what it is. 06:50.600 --> 06:54.880 So EVPF is a Linux kernel technology. 06:54.880 --> 06:58.280 And what allows you to do is to hook 06:58.280 --> 07:02.680 anywhere into the Linux kernel to change how things 07:02.680 --> 07:05.440 are doing in a safe and very performant way. 07:05.440 --> 07:07.400 So this is a lot of use cases and things 07:07.400 --> 07:11.760 like networking, observability, tracing, and security. 07:11.760 --> 07:13.400 It's really kind of like the modern way 07:13.400 --> 07:16.400 to extend the functionality of the Linux kernel. 07:16.400 --> 07:19.480 So you can think this has a lot of use cases for companies 07:19.480 --> 07:20.800 internally. 07:20.800 --> 07:25.760 The quote that people like to use is EVPF is the Linux kernel 07:25.760 --> 07:28.560 what JavaScript is to the browser, right? 07:28.560 --> 07:30.440 Suddenly, instead of having static web pages, 07:30.440 --> 07:32.320 you have interactive elements that kind of 07:32.320 --> 07:34.040 changes you interact with them. 07:34.040 --> 07:35.800 Or in the words of Brendan Gregg, 07:35.800 --> 07:39.200 it's EVPF gives superpowers to Linux kernel. 07:39.200 --> 07:41.360 So kind of like this fundamental enabling 07:41.360 --> 07:44.360 technology that does a lot of different things. 07:44.360 --> 07:48.080 And so we can see this kind of adoption happening 07:48.080 --> 07:49.920 in the EVPF ecosystem. 07:49.920 --> 07:52.400 And the original way that people like companies 07:52.400 --> 07:56.200 kind of started investing in the EVPF was this own use thing. 07:56.200 --> 07:58.040 Like meta was building out data centers 07:58.040 --> 08:00.800 and their load balancers weren't scaling. 08:00.800 --> 08:04.240 So they switched to EVPF to reduce their load balancer 08:04.240 --> 08:05.280 consumption. 08:05.280 --> 08:09.880 Google was not being able to get the security insights 08:09.880 --> 08:11.360 that they wanted in their infrastructure. 08:11.360 --> 08:15.920 So they switched to EVPF to have better security insights. 08:15.920 --> 08:20.400 A lot of new observability vendors are switching to EVPF 08:20.400 --> 08:23.920 because it allows you to provide observability 08:23.920 --> 08:26.640 and application code without having to make any changes 08:26.640 --> 08:29.320 to the actual application code. 08:29.320 --> 08:32.920 So it's a really powerful enabling technology. 08:32.920 --> 08:34.880 And it was originally adopted by these companies 08:34.880 --> 08:37.440 for the own use that they had. 08:37.440 --> 08:40.760 Now, at the EVPF Foundation, that's great. 08:40.760 --> 08:41.920 Companies are adopting that. 08:41.920 --> 08:43.720 But that's not actually going to be 08:43.720 --> 08:46.840 how can we encourage this whole ecosystem around it? 08:46.840 --> 08:49.560 How can we bring not just that own use money 08:49.560 --> 08:52.000 into our technology, into our ecosystem, 08:52.000 --> 08:54.920 but how can we actually bring the strategic use 08:54.920 --> 09:00.120 back into the EVPF Foundation, into the EVPF ecosystem? 09:00.120 --> 09:02.920 And so how can we make EVPF, not just the technology 09:02.920 --> 09:06.280 that companies are using, but the technology 09:06.280 --> 09:08.880 that companies are betting their strategic platform 09:08.880 --> 09:09.960 on top of? 09:09.960 --> 09:11.600 And that's kind of what I'm going to dive into now 09:11.600 --> 09:18.040 and how we approach funding things in the EVPF Foundation. 09:18.040 --> 09:22.560 So before I worked at my current company, 09:22.560 --> 09:25.600 I was actually at the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, 09:25.600 --> 09:27.680 which is part of the Linux Foundation, 09:27.680 --> 09:28.880 and kind of looking at that, 09:28.880 --> 09:31.640 and a lot of other open source foundations there, 09:31.640 --> 09:33.280 I think there's three main things 09:33.280 --> 09:35.160 that open source foundations should do 09:35.160 --> 09:37.400 to encourage kind of the strategic investment 09:37.400 --> 09:39.320 into the technology. 09:39.320 --> 09:41.880 And the three things you need to encourage 09:41.880 --> 09:44.400 as a foundation is one the community, 09:44.400 --> 09:48.480 two the code, and three the ecosystem. 09:48.480 --> 09:50.920 I think there's different lovers to pull 09:50.920 --> 09:53.920 for each of those, community code and ecosystem, 09:53.920 --> 09:56.640 all have different things that you need to look at 09:56.640 --> 09:59.680 and invest into to grow each of them to have, 09:59.680 --> 10:02.280 kind of like this flywheel of innovation 10:02.280 --> 10:03.760 and funding coming in. 10:05.000 --> 10:08.560 And so the way that we do that at the EVPF Foundation 10:08.560 --> 10:10.520 is the community we encourage 10:10.520 --> 10:12.200 through face-to-face collaboration, 10:12.200 --> 10:14.600 exactly like we're doing here coming to foster them, 10:14.600 --> 10:17.680 or in the EVPF Devroom that's happening right now. 10:17.680 --> 10:19.320 The second one is around the code, 10:19.320 --> 10:22.800 how can we improve the actual upstream project 10:22.800 --> 10:24.680 to make it more successful for everyone? 10:24.680 --> 10:25.960 And the last one is, 10:25.960 --> 10:27.240 how can we encourage the ecosystem, 10:27.240 --> 10:28.880 how can we tell the story of the ecosystem, 10:28.880 --> 10:30.840 what is the marketing angle we want to actually have 10:30.840 --> 10:31.760 on our project? 10:32.840 --> 10:34.680 So, kind of walking through each of those. 10:34.680 --> 10:37.640 The first one is conferences and meetups. 10:37.640 --> 10:41.280 So, we fund people, we fund conferences, 10:41.280 --> 10:45.440 like this one is, I was Linux Plumber's conference, 10:45.440 --> 10:47.360 we were sponsored that because we're in tried to encourage 10:47.360 --> 10:49.080 the first of all the core developers 10:49.080 --> 10:51.120 to get a face-to-face, you know, 10:51.120 --> 10:53.400 it's, we can, the great thing about open sources, 10:53.400 --> 10:54.640 you can work with anybody in the world, 10:54.640 --> 10:57.240 but sometimes it's great to gather everybody in one room, 10:57.240 --> 10:59.920 to have those conversations that don't happen otherwise. 10:59.920 --> 11:03.880 So, we fund conferences to progress the technology. 11:03.880 --> 11:06.000 The second thing we just launched is the meetup program. 11:06.000 --> 11:09.360 We want to enable people to bring together 11:09.360 --> 11:10.360 their local community. 11:10.360 --> 11:13.120 So, spread the message of EVPF around the role. 11:13.120 --> 11:15.200 Like, it's great to get people together. 11:15.200 --> 11:20.200 So, funding people to host meetups in their local city. 11:21.120 --> 11:25.720 The second part is around upstream development. 11:25.720 --> 11:28.280 When I was talking about kind of like this own use, 11:28.280 --> 11:32.200 every company or every individual has their own use. 11:32.200 --> 11:33.840 They have their own bugs, they want to fix, 11:33.840 --> 11:35.640 they have their own things they want to do. 11:35.640 --> 11:37.320 Right? And they will invest into that 11:37.320 --> 11:39.160 because it's in their own interest. 11:39.160 --> 11:41.560 But, if you're looking about like kind of a project 11:41.560 --> 11:43.080 or an ecosystem as a whole, 11:43.080 --> 11:45.800 there's sometimes things that fall between the cracks 11:45.800 --> 11:49.440 of all the companies interest, the personal interests, 11:49.440 --> 11:50.720 the things that people are tackling, 11:50.720 --> 11:53.760 but are actually be good for the whole ecosystem 11:53.760 --> 11:56.560 as a whole, make the whole technology stronger. 11:56.560 --> 11:58.400 So, what we do at the EVPF Foundation 11:58.400 --> 12:00.720 is we do statements work. 12:00.720 --> 12:02.960 We fund upstream development in a project 12:02.960 --> 12:05.040 for the things that are critical for the project 12:05.040 --> 12:08.320 to continue to progress, 12:08.320 --> 12:15.040 but that no individual company kind of has the idea to invest 12:15.040 --> 12:18.000 or the want or the need to invest into. 12:18.000 --> 12:22.240 So, one of them was improving self-test 12:22.240 --> 12:23.360 in the Linux kernel. 12:23.360 --> 12:26.560 Another one is it was improving BTF, 12:26.560 --> 12:28.240 which is BTF type format. 12:28.240 --> 12:32.240 So, it's kind of like these glue things that help hold the project 12:32.240 --> 12:34.160 together, make the whole developer experience better, 12:34.160 --> 12:36.480 make it easier to work with, better to use, 12:36.480 --> 12:39.760 but nobody individually is working on that. 12:39.760 --> 12:41.600 That's what we can look at at the foundation 12:41.600 --> 12:44.480 and look like, hey, what are the things that are missing, 12:44.480 --> 12:47.760 that we can fund and can we pay people to actually do that? 12:47.760 --> 12:50.640 Right now to make the technology better. 12:50.640 --> 12:54.000 Another critical one is security funding. 12:54.000 --> 12:56.880 So, I don't think I have to explain how important it is 12:56.880 --> 13:00.800 to secure open source right now or just software in general. 13:00.800 --> 13:06.560 So, we're investing into the security of the BTF subsystem. 13:06.560 --> 13:10.960 So, we funded audits of, there's a couple different components, 13:10.960 --> 13:13.120 there's a verifier, there's a jit compiler, 13:14.880 --> 13:16.320 and we funded audits of those. 13:16.320 --> 13:19.120 We're doing some statements of work to improve 13:19.120 --> 13:21.520 sanitization of programs. 13:21.520 --> 13:24.960 And the reason that we do that is when companies or customers, 13:24.960 --> 13:26.880 if people say like, is this actually secure, 13:26.880 --> 13:29.520 you're modifying what how the Linux kernel is actually working, 13:29.520 --> 13:32.400 you can say yes, here's the third party audit that we've done. 13:32.400 --> 13:35.680 This is a safe technology to adopt and something that you should put 13:35.680 --> 13:38.240 into your stack and not only into your stack, into production, 13:38.240 --> 13:41.360 and not only into production, but in the critical path 13:41.360 --> 13:43.120 in your production infrastructure, 13:43.200 --> 13:46.400 because once it's tied into how companies are functioning, 13:46.400 --> 13:48.800 they need to have it succeed. 13:51.120 --> 13:53.120 The next part is actually a really fun one, 13:53.120 --> 13:56.400 which I think could be like a whole other separate talk. 13:56.400 --> 14:00.720 That I think is really fun is we actually fund academic research grants. 14:01.600 --> 14:08.960 So, we invest into the academic community around BTF. 14:09.920 --> 14:14.160 And the reason why we do that is like a couple different fold. 14:14.160 --> 14:18.560 So, one is how can we encourage more people to research, 14:18.560 --> 14:21.360 EDPF, what are the cutting, cutting at use cases, 14:21.360 --> 14:24.640 how what are new ways people can use the technology? 14:24.640 --> 14:27.920 Another one is it's great to have somebody spend the whole year of their life, 14:28.640 --> 14:30.560 you know, researching a technology, 14:30.560 --> 14:35.040 and to be honest, PhD students are a lot less expensive than security researchers. 14:35.040 --> 14:40.640 Yeah, and once people kind of start getting invested into it, 14:40.640 --> 14:43.840 it's also good for the companies in the ecosystem, 14:43.840 --> 14:48.160 because people have spent a year or four years of their life researching a technology 14:48.160 --> 14:52.320 while they're pretty in a good position to be hired too. 14:52.320 --> 14:57.280 And it's kind of creating this flywheel around academia 14:57.280 --> 14:59.600 into the actual ecosystem too. 14:59.600 --> 15:04.320 So, people research it, and then they contribute to the upstream project, 15:04.320 --> 15:07.280 they have new use cases, they have new ways to do it. 15:07.280 --> 15:08.400 And it's actually really cool. 15:08.400 --> 15:12.560 We actually saw a lot of talks at Linux Plumber's conference 15:12.560 --> 15:16.880 and at the EDPF Devrim funded by the work that we did in the academic community. 15:18.960 --> 15:21.360 Beyond just kind of like the academic work, we also found 15:21.360 --> 15:24.400 a fun community building fellowships. 15:24.400 --> 15:27.760 So, these are people going out and writing the labs, the blogs, 15:27.760 --> 15:33.840 the tutorials, all the different things that people need to get started, 15:33.840 --> 15:36.400 use the technology be successful with it. 15:36.400 --> 15:40.240 You know, like, I'm one person, I can only go to, I don't know, 15:40.240 --> 15:42.480 so many conferences here, I can only talk to so many people, 15:42.480 --> 15:46.320 but once you're able to fund other people to go out and do the advocacy work, 15:46.320 --> 15:49.600 then you can really expand your reach as a foundation 15:49.600 --> 15:51.600 as a technology, as an ecosystem. 15:53.360 --> 15:57.760 And then the last part is around the marketing material. 15:57.760 --> 16:00.400 It's not only, you know, getting people together, 16:00.400 --> 16:02.320 talking about the technology progressing it. 16:02.400 --> 16:04.320 It's not just about how good as our code. 16:04.320 --> 16:07.840 It's actually being able to tell the story of your technology. 16:07.840 --> 16:09.120 Why is it so important? 16:09.120 --> 16:10.640 Why should companies invest it? 16:10.640 --> 16:12.480 Why should individuals look at it? 16:12.480 --> 16:14.480 And so we've done a lot of that too. 16:14.480 --> 16:20.000 And what we've done at the foundation is target a broad variety of different audiences, 16:20.000 --> 16:24.080 because not all marketing material speaks to every single audience. 16:24.080 --> 16:30.160 We've targeted developers, we've targeted platform leaders, we targeted senior IP decision makers. 16:30.160 --> 16:36.800 We're also looking at now targeting investors and executive leadership teams. 16:36.800 --> 16:39.440 And so a couple of different things that we do is, 16:39.440 --> 16:42.000 like, one, actually, my favorite projects that I've ever done, 16:43.040 --> 16:45.040 and if you are an open source project, 16:45.920 --> 16:50.240 is doing a documentary about how the technology came to be. 16:50.240 --> 16:51.520 And it's telling the backstory. 16:51.520 --> 16:54.640 Like people believe in stories and they want to get invested in something 16:54.640 --> 16:57.120 where they feel like they know the people and the individuals. 16:58.000 --> 17:02.960 And this is a great way to kind of tell the story of the technology and how it came to be. 17:02.960 --> 17:07.600 Right, what was the own use that inspired it and how did people get excited about it? 17:07.600 --> 17:09.200 Like, that's what inspires people. 17:10.000 --> 17:12.320 The next one is actually doing case studies. 17:12.320 --> 17:14.480 You know, like, here are the production numbers. 17:14.480 --> 17:19.440 When data dog was able to switch for the EVPF for observability. 17:19.440 --> 17:23.040 Here's the reduction in latency and overhead that they had. 17:23.040 --> 17:27.280 When metaswitch to EVPF for profiling, 17:27.280 --> 17:30.240 here's the reduction in CPU they're able to find. 17:30.240 --> 17:33.280 And then the last part is like more high-level, like white papers. 17:33.280 --> 17:39.200 It's like, you know, strategically EVPF is going to be critical for the infrastructure platform 17:39.200 --> 17:42.400 and being able to talk to a higher-level audience too. 17:42.400 --> 17:45.760 So it's targeting your marketing messages at multiple different audiences. 17:45.760 --> 17:51.200 So they each all believe that EVPF is critical to the future of their technology, 17:51.200 --> 17:53.040 to their stack, and what they're able to do. 17:53.040 --> 17:55.200 So once they bring it in, they have their own use. 17:55.200 --> 17:57.760 And they start investing into the upstream, 17:57.760 --> 18:02.560 both through code, contributions through advocacy through funding too. 18:03.440 --> 18:07.120 So that's kind of how we're thinking about it at the EVPF Foundation. 18:08.240 --> 18:13.200 Now, this is where Patrick is supposed to come in and talk about self-sustainability 18:14.480 --> 18:16.160 in practice at foundation. 18:16.160 --> 18:18.480 So how can you also bring money into the foundations? 18:19.440 --> 18:21.200 This is a list of things. 18:21.200 --> 18:24.080 You also recorded this talk or a section of the talk. 18:24.080 --> 18:28.080 So if you want to see it on YouTube afterwards, go check it out. 18:29.120 --> 18:30.960 It was great to work with them on this talk. 18:30.960 --> 18:34.400 I can let anybody who wants to take a photo, take a photo so they have this link. 18:34.400 --> 18:36.320 Also, both of these slides afterwards too. 18:38.720 --> 18:45.280 Yeah, and with that, like, when you're thinking about funding projects in open source, 18:45.280 --> 18:48.320 I think you shouldn't just think about your project. 18:48.320 --> 18:50.800 Think about the ecosystem as a whole. 18:50.800 --> 18:55.040 How can we make something so critical to individuals 18:55.040 --> 18:59.920 to a company's own use that they need to have the technology be successful? 18:59.920 --> 19:02.080 They need to have the ecosystem be successful, 19:02.080 --> 19:04.240 and they can build their projects on top of it. 19:04.240 --> 19:08.080 Because I think that's what will encourage people and companies 19:08.080 --> 19:10.960 to continue investing into open source. 19:10.960 --> 19:12.000 So, thank you. 19:16.240 --> 19:20.640 Any questions? 19:26.720 --> 19:28.560 There's one over here. 19:40.560 --> 19:42.720 Hi. Thank you for the nice presentation. 19:43.680 --> 19:55.680 I noticed that you talk a lot about how actually companies can make great use of open source software, 19:56.400 --> 20:01.280 so ask the maintainers and developers of open source software 20:01.280 --> 20:04.000 can actually get some funding out of it. 20:04.000 --> 20:06.000 Which is how things work I understand. 20:06.720 --> 20:12.080 What I would like you to know your opinion or address is that 20:13.200 --> 20:19.040 is this shift that you've been explaining in your presentation? 20:23.040 --> 20:28.560 Do you believe it's in the right direction as forces consent? 20:28.560 --> 20:37.280 Because to me, it sounds that we only have to work on projects 20:37.280 --> 20:40.320 that companies can make use of it, 20:40.320 --> 20:42.880 which means they can somehow benefit of it. 20:42.880 --> 20:48.160 And the rest of the project might not be that I would like to hear your opinion, please. 20:48.160 --> 20:48.960 Yeah, definitely. 20:48.960 --> 20:50.960 I think that's a great question. 20:50.960 --> 20:54.240 I think this is why maybe it's hard to talk about like, 20:54.240 --> 20:58.720 fossil's a whole. One of my favorite books about this is not the egg bombs book, 20:59.840 --> 21:02.960 about invisible infrastructure. 21:02.960 --> 21:07.680 And I think she does a really great job laying out the different types of open source projects. 21:07.680 --> 21:10.880 And it's not like open source is like one size fits all. 21:10.880 --> 21:15.520 You know, everything from like, I just have like this individual's 21:15.520 --> 21:19.280 a project that I just used by myself and I just posted on GitHub to, you know, 21:19.280 --> 21:23.200 like the Linux kernel. And that's like a really broad range of projects. 21:23.280 --> 21:28.960 Like my experience is like more closer towards like the Linux kernel. 21:28.960 --> 21:33.360 I mean, it is the Linux kernel side. So it's like, which is like the largest open source 21:33.360 --> 21:39.040 project in the world. And then also I work on like silly on two, which is the second largest 21:39.040 --> 21:44.560 one in the cloud native computing foundation behind Kubernetes. So like I'm thinking more about 21:44.560 --> 21:48.800 those types of projects just because that's what my experience is with. 21:48.800 --> 21:54.560 Like I do think on that end of it, it is good to have companies investing more into it. 21:54.560 --> 21:59.520 Like for example, in the VPF subsystem, like most of its maintained by meta. And they have like 21:59.520 --> 22:04.880 a massive kernel team and they pay people just to work on an upstream kernel. So like in that sense, 22:04.880 --> 22:10.000 it's like there are maintainers that are the project that are being paid full time by companies 22:10.000 --> 22:16.400 to work on that. I know this is not applicable to all of open source. I was just kind of like talking 22:16.400 --> 22:20.480 from I guess my experience and maybe I should have carried out that a little bit. I don't think 22:20.480 --> 22:25.440 this is advice for every single type of project. Right. VPF is something that's in the Linux kernel. 22:25.440 --> 22:31.440 And a lot of companies are relying on it now. And that's good for EVPF because then they 22:31.440 --> 22:36.080 have to continue to invest into it. Like not a hired all of those people to work on VPF 22:36.960 --> 22:42.560 because it's critical to their whole stack. Right. And so all those people of jobs, which I think 22:42.560 --> 22:49.200 is in general cool on it. Like they're sharing their things upstream that other people can use it to. 22:50.800 --> 22:53.040 Yeah. Did that kind of answer some of your question? 22:55.360 --> 23:00.720 Yeah. Do you get a reply to a question for me? What do other ways to do? 23:00.720 --> 23:07.680 Yeah. It's like I think companies coming in to open source is good and bad. It's like another 23:07.680 --> 23:13.440 route for funding. And I think there's multiple ways to fund open source. This is one of them. 23:26.880 --> 23:33.680 Thank you so much. Firstly, I also love Nayak Bosburg working in public and the 23:34.320 --> 23:38.480 you mentioned the four organizational strategies. I'm sorry working in public is a name. 23:38.480 --> 23:44.800 Based on ratio of users and contributors. Yeah. So there's like toys, stadiums, federation and clubs. 23:44.800 --> 23:50.080 Yeah. Exactly. Really nice. For those case studies that you mentioned, 23:50.640 --> 23:54.000 or you talk about the kind of enterprise use cases and the results, 23:54.560 --> 23:58.560 it's curious to know where you get the data from. Do you reach out to those companies? 23:58.560 --> 24:03.520 Like those are powerful stories to tell. Right. But I mentioned it's really hard to get accurate data. 24:04.160 --> 24:08.400 Yeah. I reach out to the companies. I actually gave a talk about this last year at 24:08.400 --> 24:13.200 Boston in the community room. So I would check out that because it kind of lays out the whole approach 24:13.200 --> 24:17.280 that I have to do there and how I did it for not the EVP Foundation but for the Silicon project. 24:17.280 --> 24:21.680 But it's similar type of thing. Yes. And that that's a whole talk. 24:34.320 --> 24:43.360 Thanks for your talk. When you do trademark licensing for others. How do you do that? 24:43.360 --> 24:50.400 And which whites do it? And gives to whom? If you can give me an example here, 24:50.400 --> 24:53.760 just as mentioned here. You're talking about on this slide, right? Yeah. 24:53.760 --> 24:58.880 I would go watch Patrick's talk because that's his half of the talk. And I don't want to 24:59.200 --> 25:05.920 Yeah. But like for example, from when I was working at CNCF, like an example that they use was 25:05.920 --> 25:11.200 like the certified Kubernetes conformance program. And you can only say like you're certified 25:11.200 --> 25:17.840 Kubernetes if you're like a member of CNCF. But yeah, also watch Patrick's half of the talk too. 25:28.880 --> 25:41.840 Any more? Okay, thanks for coming.